[Community Discussion]: Standard Chat
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 3, 2015, 11:37 p.m. by Epochalyptik
Just like Modern, Standard now has its own "chat" thread. We're hoping that this thread draws avid Standard players to share their knowledge.
This thread is dedicated entirely to Standard. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
Dalektable says... #2
I don't think he is necessary, though undeniably very good. I am doing it, his price cannot be justified and I think it is fine without him.
October 5, 2015 5:02 p.m.
Anyone have thoughts on G/W Hardened Scales? I plan on playing it through next rotation, maybe solely for the reason t1 scales into t2 Hangarback Walker is pretty hilarious, but also because it seems like a pretty resilient aggro deck with decent removal options.
October 5, 2015 6:38 p.m. Edited.
sorinmarkov2000 says... #4
hello I know this is standard but I need help I want to build a modern grixis draw pain deck can anyone help
October 5, 2015 6:42 p.m.
Dalektable says... #5
sorinmarkov2000 Not to be rude, but there is literally a modern forum, modern deck help and deck help forum all of which are much better places to ask this. This is an inappropriately place to ask about this.
October 5, 2015 6:58 p.m.
I'm still playing the old white deck. It's a shame that Phalanx Leader rotated. he was a real all star in my deck alongside Artful Maneuver. @NarejED
If you love White decks and/or +1/+1 counters, come check out my deck right here: White (and not so) Weenie A +1 or comment would be great thanks.
Otherwise, in terms of some great decks, I played a sweet mardu dragons control deck that ended up with the victory against me 2-1 on launch day.
October 5, 2015 8:24 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #8
I'm glad I wasn't received with "don't be cheap, go buy Jaces." I'm glad we have the same train of thought, Dalektable and mpeach1, he's undoubtedly good but not worth as much as my entire trade binder.
I've been trying for a while to get Demonic Pact functional in a control build. My latest shit storm of a brew is Esper Dragons plus Demonic Pact and Disperse. I don't have any results with it yet, does anyone have any thoughts about the Pact?
October 5, 2015 8:53 p.m.
I don't know if I've said this to you before but I saw Demonic Pact and some other Enchantments used successfully with Starfield of Nyx.
October 5, 2015 9:35 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #10
I believe you have in a thread I made a week or two back :)
Do you remember any of the other enchantments used? I was supposed to go study but now my brewing gears are turning.
October 5, 2015 9:44 p.m.
How slow is the current standard given fetches and tango lands?
Im trying to put together a bad bad BAD Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck using the cards that drop thopters into play on etb..
The slowness and inefficiency is driving me crazy.. >.< Trying to keep it super cheap... half to play more, the other half to support my lgs..
October 5, 2015 9:50 p.m.
From what I have been seeing, with my local meta at the least in terms of emerging decks is: the popular Atarka Red/Naya Blitz decks, using that Scythe Leopard combo; Boros Allies/Mardu Allies/Red Deck Win w/ Zada, Grixis-Drazi aggro & control (though the control part is a bit underwhelming atm), Orzhov-Bleed (with variants of Grim Haruspex + Zulaport Cutthroat ), midrange Thopters with Drazi support (which I am playing around with), Awaken w/ your host Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, and I think Bant-allies with a splashed of Drazi, from what I can see.
October 6, 2015 12:50 a.m.
That tells me what exists.. but doesnt describe how fast it is compared to modern.. which is the format I know..
Besides the reasons I gave earlier.. Im only doing it cause a kid Ive stomped 7/9 games thinks I cant... My concern is my deck is too slow at 25-30$.. But w/e.. Bet he still claims its a netdeck.. sorta is.. mine..
October 6, 2015 3:03 a.m. Edited.
I have the feeling there's currently 4 decks in Standard. Either you run 4 Siege Rhino or 4 Hangarback Walker or 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip or you play 4 Atarka's Command. Those cards seem to be the defining cards of Standard. I don't think there's a deck that works without them. But I'm optimistic the Pros will bring something new and shiny to the Pro Tour :)
October 6, 2015 4:28 a.m.
I am hoping that every single deck that runs Hangarback Walker fails to get into top 8. Is it going to happen? Nope. But if it did, the price would falter or possibly even plummet, and then I could get in on that sweet sweet hangarback action.
October 6, 2015 5:43 a.m.
What is everyone opinion on the Hardened Scales deck. Is this something that my be competitive in this new standard? Or is it to slow and not consistent enough to keep up with some of these new brews?
October 6, 2015 11:53 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox these are the ones I remember:
Starfield of Nyx
Valor in Akros
Citadel Siege
Where things are more difficult now is that you don't have access to the Nyx Enchantment Creatures. You could bump up your quota with Auras as you can at least get them back.
Personally I think Tainted Remedy would be a classic with all the life gain I have seen in decks.
Say now ...
October 6, 2015 12:14 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #18
Hardened Scales can win by turn four with Honored Hierarch. Though it's probably a better plan to go more midrange with Endless One and not run Servant of the Scale or Honored Hierarch. I've been looking at it a lot, and it definitely wants G/W, while I'm considering splashing Red for Shaman of the Great Hunt and better sideboard options, like Wild Slash (flip walkers and burn) and Radiant Flames. I'd also consider going blue for Ojutai's Command recurring Avatar of the Resolute pretty efficiently, though I don't think that's going to be the best build of the deck. I also kind of like Touch of the Void as sideboard against Deathmist Raptor, Hangarback Walker, Den Protector decks in general. I don't like abzan Hardened scales because getting black mana is much less smooth than red or blue, and both of those colors have benefits to offer.
October 6, 2015 2:25 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #19
what do people think about G/W/u megamorph, having a blue splash for Stratus Dancer and better sideboard versatility? That also gives access to Jace, though I don't think Jace is actually necessary for the deck. Stratus Dancer is good because it can be represented with the same mana as Den Protector face down can be, which I'm sure can lead to some sweet tricks. countering board wipes and spot removal is pretty sweet, having flying is also really good to chump block dragons or fight over a Hangarback Walker that hasn't been broken. Also with flipping it face up it's two toughness in the air to block profitably against hangarback tokens.
October 6, 2015 2:29 p.m.
Mandalorian says... #20
Hardened Scales is a fine deck but it isn't like Hardened Scales is a win con or anything. Decks that run it can function fine without it, it simply makes the gears turn faster.
asasinater13. You will have an easier time with the mana base by running Naya and Bant over Abzan but Abzan has better creatures that synergize with counters. Anafenza, the Foremost, Abzan Charm, and Drana, Liberator of Malakir would go great in a counter themed deck.
I actually really like Bant Megamorph, I even brewed a prototype but never went through with the build. There are a lot of good morph cards in those colors, Whisperwood Elemental, Mastery of the Unseen, Den Protector, Deathmist Raptor, Hidden Dragonslayer, Stratus Dancer, and then throw a Dragonlord Dromoka and Dragonlord Ojutai in. I also like access to both Dromoka's Command and Ojutai's Command.
October 6, 2015 3:13 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #21
I think taking an aggro deck and giving it an unreliable mana base kills all of the ability to be aggressive. Hardened scales can't do well as abzan, too much chance of awkward hands with drana and no black. Shaman of the Great Hunt is also fantastic at getting counters on creatures and can daw cards in a pinch, in colors that are easier to splash that I feel adds better sideboard cards against the meta we have, Abzan Charm misses flip walkers, and is easy for red decks to play around. Our goal is to out-pace the decks where Abzan Charm is good. also of notes is that Shaman of the Great Hunt has haste, and that can be very significant after an ugin resolves and sweeps the board, it actually gives some opportunity to come back. I mean out goal is to kill before ugin hits, but we won't always live that dream and people tap out for ugin not expecting haste. assuming ugin has to -3 to wipe the board, shaman comes in and kills him. drana gives him time to untap and start ticking up.
so abzan scales wants GBW, GG1, and BB1 on turn three, which is kind of difficult to do. this makes the deck slower, and the mainboard is more vulnerable to ugin because it lacks any amount of haste threats to kill him off after he's gotten to minus. not to mention the deck's already being saturated on three drops and not wanting to add more. I just prefer Naya, even though it seems less than the most intuitive choice.
ojutai for bant megamorph is really interesting. I like it
October 6, 2015 3:39 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #22
I'm not 100% sold on Naya Hardened Scales* being better than G/W, but it's something I'll try and give much more consideration to than Abzan. I'm sure I'll eventually try it all because it's the deck I'm looking to play in standard and I'll want to play the best possible version. currently my testing list includes bant, naya, fully-aggressive, dropping Servant of the Scale staying G/W aggro, dedicating to being midrange, and abzan. I think I like the naya version best in theory but I'm yet to get practice with any.
October 6, 2015 3:44 p.m. Edited.
Koalamaster123 says... #23
what do you guys think about the sultai control deck I'm working on?http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sultai-control-with-battle-for-zendikar/
October 6, 2015 6:47 p.m.
This is my physical deck as of right now.. let me know what you think about this monster.
Hey check out my deck AllyAbzan -Røyer
October 7, 2015 5:01 a.m.
Fried_Mana says... #25
I'm also making an attempt at control sans Jace, for the same reason as @mpeach1... $70? Come on... What's got me really excited for BFZ in standard is the Ingest/Processor mechanic. I've been putting extensive thought into I Like to Eat, Eat, Eat., but I am unsure of whether it has viable power for standard play without Jace's exiling.
October 7, 2015 5:59 p.m.
So I can't find the answer online. Is Genesis Hydra, or really all of M15, still in standard? I thought no but gatherer keeps returning magic 2015 even when I specifically exclude it from a search of all standard cards. Also the M15 cards all still say Standard. Below is the Genesis Hydra "sets and legality" page from the gatherer.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=383255
October 7, 2015 8:21 p.m.
Thanks I figured that was the case or I would still be seeing Genesis Hydra..
October 7, 2015 10:16 p.m.
I still find it slightly hilarious that a set labeled M15 isn't actually legal to play with for a quarter of the year 2015. Guess that's what happens when Wizards tries to copy car companies and label their products a year newer than they should be.
October 8, 2015 3:47 a.m.
RedDiomedes says... #30
General thought I have been having. Have the colours of Magic blurred too much.
When I think Red I think Burn. This mechanic is at least pretty much guaranteed to belong to red or a gold card that has a red Mana cost.
When I think Blue I think Counter magic. Again this mechanic seems to be unique to blue and flavourfully distinct.
The remaining colours though. Green has Mana ramp but this mechanic is found in colourless artefacts and blue, black and red have all had cool ramp cards. Sorceries instead of dorks but it exists. Green has big creatures but so do all the colours, at least a few.
When I think Black I think graveyard mechanics. Delve for example. Yet is it unique? Green can Mill cards to the graveyard and than bring them back. Lifelink exists in white too. Drawing cards is in blue and white etc. Black is the go to colour for creature removal but white has tons as well.
I understand that colours need to be able to do more than one thing to be viable but have they lost their distinctiveness? I have not been playing for very long but were the colours of magic once more distinct?
October 8, 2015 7:49 a.m.
I have been chewing over this idea myself.
You can see differences in the colours, but it is just very subtle.
Examples:
Blue has removal, but mostly in the form of destruction. White has removal too, but has more exile than Black. Blue has an exile spell, but the Opponent also gets a Morph.
Blue lets you draw then discard. Red makes you discard before you draw.
Red hits your face.
Green has little in the way of flying (other than DTK, but it was not going to be any other way with Dragons in all colours).
Green has fight and growth.
There have always been large signature Creatures for all colours. Everybody loves a bomb.
Hydras, Dragons, Angels, Leviathans, Demons.
Same with lil' Weanies.
October 8, 2015 12:41 p.m.
Mandalorian says... #32
Certain colors are known for certain things but others can achieve the same goal through different means, that's what makes them unique.
For example, card draw. I think everyone would agree that 
has the best card draw cards and almost all of them simply say draw a card. Serum Visions, Blue Sun's Zenith, Fascination. This is because of longing for knowledge and thirst to know everything. Therefore card draw is one of the color's best mechanics.
Surprisingly and sometimes overlooked are the other colors ability to do this efficiently as well. 
has great card draw followed by 
then 
and lastly 
which has the worst card draw.
Each color can draw cards but they do it in there own way using their colors. Undoubtedly cards like Read the Bones, Sign in Blood, and Damnable Pact and very cards that draw cards and in typical fashion they do it by paying life.
embodies chaos and freedom which is why it has card draw cards like Desperate Ravings, Wild Guess, and Tormenting Voice. These cards draw cards but do it in fashion with chaos.
draws cards well and in closer fashion to with access to cards like Harmonize. Some card draw spells though are very green like Life's Legacy, Shamanic Revelation, and Momentous Fall using the size of its creatures and army to draw.
has the worst because they seek knowledge the least. understands their place and that they are just another cog in the machine that equates to victory. Who cares how many soldiers we lose as long as it leads to victory. Because of this mentality the color has, it has the worst card draw. Healing Hands, Wall of Omens
Some colors do some things better than others but all colors do most everyone one way or another. Its how they accomplish the goal that defines the color.
October 8, 2015 1:26 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #33
Can I just talk about what an absolute HOUSE Smothering Abomination is in any "Aristocrats" style deck? I've played 4 games on cockatrice today and literally every match they've ignored it thinking it'll deal with itself, it wins me the game. I just played a game where I had two on the field, upkeep, sac a manifest and a Bloodsoaked Champion draw 5 fucking cards, combo off with both Rally the Ancestors and Zulaport Cutthroat that I drew OFF THOSE FIVE CARDS!. Hype.
October 8, 2015 2:45 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #34
note that Harmonize has been stated multiple times to be a color pie break, not a card that actually belongs in green.
October 8, 2015 4:56 p.m.
Massive typo above.
I meant to say that Black has removal in the form of destruction.
Mandalorian said it all much better, anyway.
October 8, 2015 6:15 p.m.
I'm new to the chat on here, but I've been posting a couple decks, I intend in running this,Orzhov Allies, at my local LGS tonight, not sure how well it will do, but I would love some tips on refining it if anyone has the time.
October 9, 2015 3:34 a.m.
Something I've been thinking about lately is this.
When KTK hit Standard it seemed to revolutionise a lot of play. Abzan feels as though it has been strong in just about every field since then, albeit in different forms: midrange, control, aggro.
A lot of other Tri colour decks have been strong since then as well.
When the next rotation hits, will there be anything in BFZ that has the same impact?
October 9, 2015 8:28 a.m.
trollslayer says... #38
Assassinator13, Harmonize to me, actually fits perfectly in the color pie. The elf shown is becoming one with nature, or trying to learn from nature. When they do this, they gain the knowledge from nature, as it signifies in the art.
October 9, 2015 11:06 a.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #39
No, Harmonize is a green Concentrate because it was color-shifted, like Groundbreaker (Ball Lightning) and Healing Leaves (Healing Salve). Also worth noting that the original art has no elf.
October 9, 2015 11:17 a.m.
Mandalorian says... #41
FAMOUSWATERMELON is right. Same with Essence Warden and Soul Warden
October 9, 2015 12:15 p.m.
VampireArmy- I completely agree regarding Smothering Abomination.
You can get some crazy card value off of it.
I love that its draw clause triggers at any sacrifice, not just those caused by itself.
October 9, 2015 1:36 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #43
trollslayer harmonize, mechanically, is not a green card. Green's card draw is meant to be effects like Shamanic Revelation where it involves its creatures. I would strongly say that Nissa, Vastwood Seer's plus is a color pie break, or bend at the least. Without trying to justify it through my own arguments, MaRo (head of design at wizards and un-officially titled head of the color pie) has stated multiple times that Harmonize is a color pie break that shouldn't have happened. Things being flavorful doesn't mean they fit mechanically, see Hornet Queen breaking green's lack of fliers.
October 9, 2015 1:47 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #44
Being a 4/3 with evasion also helps. I'm concerned about how it fares vs esper though
October 9, 2015 1:47 p.m.
Does anyone know any good ideas for a deck? I need to brew but my head is empty...
October 10, 2015 10:15 a.m.
RedDiomedes says... #47
Black white allies 'you lose a life in gain a life' can be your catchphrase
Hardened scales
October 10, 2015 11:53 a.m.
Tstainbrook says... #48
I have been playing variations of my Eldrazi of the Mire deck. I really would like this to get to the next level!! Thoughts and suggestions welcome. Been in one tournament so far and mistake by me cost me a 3-0-1 finish going 2-1-1; however, I have really enjoyed playing this so far! I am also dabbling with ideas of Jeskai goodies Jeskai Standard Homebrewings. I like the look of the elf decks in B/G, and there are some nasty "8 Rhino" decks going around with 5 color goodie lands, Bring to Light, and 4x Siege Rhino!
October 10, 2015 noon
HolyFalcon says... #49
G/W allies or some crap. I'll probably end up just playing Atarka Red. GlistenerAgent got a list I could look at?
October 10, 2015 1:22 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #50
I'm on my phone, but I'll try to post the list I'm playing.
mpeach1 says... #1
It's going to be difficult without jace because he's so good, but I'm doing it. He's just too pricey right now
October 5, 2015 4:50 p.m.