[Community Discussion]: Standard Chat
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 3, 2015, 11:37 p.m. by Epochalyptik
Just like Modern, Standard now has its own "chat" thread. We're hoping that this thread draws avid Standard players to share their knowledge.
This thread is dedicated entirely to Standard. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
No one deck is going to dominate this whole season. The winning Atarka red deck had three losses in that tourney. I still see Atarka red and Abzan aggro being well positioned. I hope a deck comes along that makes people play less hangarbacks. Something like Shatterstorm in the next set?
October 10, 2015 3:06 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #3
Yeah, I'm now seeing hangerback as a 2-4-of in just about every single deck. It just makes the format less diverse.
October 10, 2015 3:16 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #4
Complete Disregard, Horribly Awry, Utter End all kill it, which is why I really like Esper Dragons and Atarka Red.
October 10, 2015 3:19 p.m.
Reality Shift deals with Hangarback Walker too.
I'm also tired of seeing people shove it in their decks without really considering if it fits.
I think the same thing is going to happen with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar for a lot of people who play with White.
October 10, 2015 4:23 p.m.
Fried_Mana says... #9
Do I smell a Hangarback Walker Standard ban? Haha...
October 10, 2015 4:25 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #10
It's not people jamming it where it doesn't fit. It just fits almost everywhere.
October 10, 2015 4:28 p.m.
The thing is Hangarback Walker can often be quite easily dealt with.
It's just boring as hell to see it in just about every deck.
It can be an amazing card in the right hands.
October 10, 2015 4:29 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #12
I wonder if anyone will ever end up using the morph enchantments, I've been tinkering with a (super) budget Simic Morph deck, and I think if I put the money into making it Bant or Temur then it'd be pretty good. The Morph Enchants also stack fairly well (Trail of Mystery, Secret Plans, and Obscuring AEther) I played a game yesterday where I actually was able to finish someone off because they didn't think about how you can turn Obscuring Aether into a creature, and there was another game where I ripped all of the lands out of my deck due to a few Trails being in play.
October 10, 2015 4:34 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #14
Does anyone else think Jeskai black is gonna win the pro tour? It gets Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip, Mantis Rider and Crackling Doom, which I believe will be three very important cards in the upcoming standard. I don't think any new bfz cards will have an impact, and that the biggest change is that removal is worse and manabases will be better, both things that make jace Mantis Rider and Crackling Doom more important to have. Yesterday at fnm dark jeskai was dominating.
October 10, 2015 5:46 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #15
Played against a c*ckatrice mod the other day who played that. Has like 0 game vs decks who don't care about you killing dudes....but since most decks care, it very well could if it gets over the red hurdle
October 10, 2015 5:55 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #16
"No BFZ cards will have an impact"
Jeskai Black literally only exists thanks to BFZ.
I don't think the deck will win the PT. I like either Esper or some Megamorph deck.
October 10, 2015 5:56 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #17
GlistenerAgent Sorry, I didn't word that correctly. I meant that no bfz themes will have an impact. Obviously the lands will change everything. I meant that allies, devoid decks, or eldrazi decks won't be a thing. Not many individual bfz cards will have much of an impact, other than something like gideon.
October 10, 2015 6:06 p.m.
Could have sworn four color that didn't use green was called Yore, due to the corresponding Nephilim Yore-Tiller Nephilim. Why is everyone suddenly trying to call it Jeskai Black? Crazy kids....
October 10, 2015 9:05 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #20
NarejED its really just a jeskai deck splashing for Crackling Doom, hardly full on yore.
October 10, 2015 10:20 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #21
after playing at an FNM this weekend, I feel very strongly that a G/W Hardened Scales splashing red and blue can be strong. It ran very well without any mana issues for me. Red gives Radiant Flames out of sideboard and Shaman of the Great Hunt mainboard. Exert Influence was a blue card I'm testing right now and haven't drawn enough to know if it's worth its spot, but it feels good being able to take rhinos, tasigurs, Dragonlord Silumgar, etc.
October 11, 2015 12:32 a.m.
pumpkinwavy: That's pretty common for sets. Those sorts of themes are generally just for limited and less so for constructed. I think it's obvious to see that the biggest effect BFZ will have on standard is the mana bases and what they can support, but to say that the nonland cards of BFZ will have no effect is foolish.
October 11, 2015 11:08 a.m.
Soul_Power says... #23
Jace is NOT needed for control. Everyone is passing off awaken as an unusable mechanic, but my awaken deck suggests otherwise and is by far the strongest deck I've seen post rotation so far. And, oh yeah, it's a control deck with no Jace.
Awaken is boss in standard. Doing control without awaken at the moment seems misguided.
October 11, 2015 11:24 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #24
Except that your deck would almost certainly be better if it was built to play and maximize Jace.
Awaken is a rather clunky mechanic. I think its going to be more like convenient flood protection than an actively played-toward ability.
October 11, 2015 11:54 a.m. Edited.
Soul_Power says... #25
Jace was in the deck originally as a two of. I have the set, but ended up taking him out because in the 3 matches I play tested, I faced RDW three straight times and Jace only flipped ONCE in 3 full matches. Granted, I'm not running Ojutai's Command but still, Jace shouldn't need another card to be good.
It's all meta dependent. Jace sucks in my meta, I have to run kill cards or else I get aggro'd down. I'm not arguing with the results since I took Jace out, I went 2-1 with Jace, and 4-0 with no Jace.
October 11, 2015 12:10 p.m.
There's no reason to force awaken. It is fine as a way to generate extra value from your spells which our fine on their own, but for the most part the mechanic is clunky and makes your spells unwieldy. I think the main box you need to check when evaluating an awaken card is are you fine playing it without awaken? For cards like Scatter to the Winds,Ruinous Path, and Planar Outburst the answer is probably yes, but for Part the Waterveil and Coastal Discovery it's probably no.
As for Jace, while he's not necessary, I agree with GlistenerAgent that there's no reason not to play him.
October 11, 2015 12:10 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #27
Soul_Power So you're saying that you cut him because of 3 game losses? That's a very very bad way to go about things. Sample size is everything. If you're having issues with aggro, play more cheap removal and fewer four and five mana sweepers and other super clunky cards.
October 11, 2015 12:16 p.m.
So you took out Jace because of three games you played against 1 specific deck? Seems like faulty logic. Red makes up less then 10 percent of the metagame. If it's a larger part of your LGS than I'd suggest adding the Jace's to the sideboard.
October 11, 2015 12:17 p.m.
Soul_Power says... #30
The point of the deck is this: up until around 7 mana, you cast your control cards without awaken. After a certain point, all of your cards become value cards, just at a high cmc.
Coastal Discovery often gets cast without awaken, but just to make sure I don't miss my land drop on any of my turns. With awaken, this card becomes, "summon a 4/4 and draw two cards" which is amazing for a control player and I cast this for awaken every opportunity that I get.
Planar Outburst with awaken is a card that builds your army while simultaneously destroying your opponents. Do this twice in a row over two turns and you've probably created massive card advantage.
Ruinous Path is one card that almost always gets cast without awaken. It's in here to deal with planeswalkers plain and simply, but the added option of awaken means that you're making creatures at the same time as you're killing creatures. Again, more card advantage.
It's as you say, the cards are fine on their own. But with awaken, they no longer need win cons in the deck beside them because now you're actually using your "destroy all creatures" card to win the game for you which it has never been able to do in the past.
October 11, 2015 12:21 p.m.
Soul_Power says... #31
Jace came out to deal with RDW. Mission accomplished. The deck now deals with RDW, as well as midrange and control. Do I really need to change it up? Do I really need Jace? I'm thinking, don't mess with a good thing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
October 11, 2015 12:25 p.m.
That is frustratingly poor logic. "My deck is good enough, why should I look for ways to make it better?" Jace is an incredibly powerful magic card who you are underselling because of three games against 1 specific deck. Against any of the mega-morph strategies (a matchup I would guess is one of your worst), certain versions of Jeskai (again a tough matchup), and in any sort of control mirror Jace is one of your best cards in the. While it's possible you don't want Jace in the maindeck game 1, as to blank cheap removal like Wild Slash and Ultimate Price, it seems silly not to have in your board.
October 11, 2015 12:33 p.m.
Soul_Power says... #33
You may be right about having him the sideboard, but I don't think it needed. If you beat control, you beat control why do you need to beat them harder? Jeskai is a tough match up indeed, but good luck finding a deck that doesn't have its match up problems.
Jace doesn't automatically make the deck better anyway. If I'm boarding against control, I'd probably run a negate over a Jace.
October 11, 2015 12:43 p.m.
Soul_Power says... #34
And as far as megamorph decks, megamorph is a creature mechanic attached to only creatures is it not? I'm running 2 x languish main and 4 x planar outburst main. Megamorph is just a speed bump for me, but I don't see a megamorph deck ever building a large enough board against me to win.
October 11, 2015 12:45 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #35
Evolutionary Leap is back breaking from megamorph.
October 11, 2015 1:03 p.m.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #36
Can I get some opinions on Golgari this rotation? There seems to be a minor sacrifice theme running in BFZ, and I think I would like to get in on that. I'm not finding enough consistency with the 3-color decks I've tried to build (Jeskai Prowess and Grixis Aggro), so I cut it to two-color. I've tinkered with a couple B/G variations, from Golgari Hardened Scales to Suicide Golgari, and I think the latter may be a bit more effective. For a reference, here is my current list: Suicide Golgari.
October 12, 2015 11:42 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #37
AndWelcomeToTheJam: Golgari seems well positioned to me. If Deathmist Raptor and Hangarback Walker weren't so expensive, I'd be running it myself.
I'm fairly confident I want to run UW Dragons. Dragonlord Ojutai + Tragic Arrogance is pretty sweet. I'm also enjoying running End Hostilities to kill everyone's lands. Here is my current list.
October 12, 2015 11:52 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #39
GlistenerAgent cheaper than Esper Dragons. Lol. If I had the money, Esper Dragons is what I'd play, but I am enjoying the interesting removal white has at its disposal.
October 12, 2015 12:17 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #40
JaceArveduin: It seems your comment got lost amongst the others. I was running Sultai Morph for a while. It did quite well pre-BFZ, but I haven't been able to adjust to the BFZ set. I also feel like Allies does the same thing, just better.
October 12, 2015 12:23 p.m.
Daniel_notelock says... #41
I'm considering running a G/B sack and ramp deck in the new standard. Stuff like From Beyond and Beastcaller Savant along with the other ramp spells. I figure I run hangerback walker so I can sac him for Smothering Abomination then ramp into Ulamog. What about you guys?
October 12, 2015 3:27 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #42
buildingadeckDon't worry bout it, happens all the time lol. But where you running the enchantments? I've been tinkering with a Temur build that's just a dash of red with Atarka Efreet and Roast for the mainboard. I actually played a game where I kept a horrible 1 land hand, but had 3 Obscuring AEthers and almost won because playing creatures for free is awesome. I could see Salty being good though, good removal and a few decent morphs.
As for your U/W Dragons deck, the only thing that seems sorta out of place is the Myth Realized. I can understand why you play it, but how's it actually been running?
October 12, 2015 4:53 p.m.
SpringingTiger says... #43
AndWelcomeToTheJam, you should check out this Black/Green sacrifice deck from the SCG Open this past weekend.
buildingadeck, I have several comments on your dragons deck, which I'll post in a comment on your deck later.
October 12, 2015 5:27 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #44
JaceArveduin: I actually cut Secret Plans for Grim Haruspex because it's more consistent, but yeah, I was running the on-color enchantments.
SpringingTiger: I look forward to reading them.
October 12, 2015 6:57 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #45
If you're playing a sacrifice deck you MUST find a way to play Abzan Ascendancy no question about it. The card enables you to do so much more. Also if you have room for Sorin, Solemn Visitor i urge you to run 2 at the very least. Every time i play him, he's relevant.
October 12, 2015 7:04 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #46
buildingadeck The reason I like Secrets is because it puts my morph out of wild slash range, and multiples actually make your morph's good blockers. It's also harder to get rid of. And if you're living the dream, it puts them out of Languish range and has the ability to block Rhinos, lol
October 12, 2015 7:25 p.m.
Ive been tinkering with mardu control using dust stalker to win
Abzan Rally the ancestors because zulaport cutthroat
and finally, june dragons
October 12, 2015 10:58 p.m.
I should get back into standard - got another Hangarback Walker today :)
Are there any semi-competitive gimmick decks that I could test out? I'm not exactly going to go out and buy jaces/tango lands/other assorted 30 dollar cards...
Abzan Rally is funny to play - I started to build it last march, but it never really took off to where I wanted it to go :)
October 12, 2015 11:30 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #49
JaceArveduin: Myth Realized has given me an extra hit here and there to finish off an opponent, but it's probably ultimately unnecessary. I could probably replace it with something like Horribly Awry, Silkwrap, or some other early interaction spell. Valorous Stance might be pretty top notch.
As for Secret Plans, I often found that it slowed me down and was less consistent than Grim Haruspex, but if you're not in the black colors, it's probably good.
October 13, 2015 2:53 a.m.
JaceArveduin says... #50
buildingadeck I can see why you'd play it, my problem is that it dies to Wild Slash, which makes me sad. It's also a three drop, which means it technically competes with all of my morphs, which makes it awkward.
GlistenerAgent says... #1
My list is on my profile now. Battle Rage is potential MD, the rest of the maybe board is possible SB cards.
October 10, 2015 1:55 p.m.