[Community Discussion]: Standard Chat
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 3, 2015, 11:37 p.m. by Epochalyptik
Just like Modern, Standard now has its own "chat" thread. We're hoping that this thread draws avid Standard players to share their knowledge.
This thread is dedicated entirely to Standard. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #2
Edit to above: I just swapped out Den Protector and Drana, Liberator of Malakir with Nantuko Husk. I had these in because I was previously trying to make Golgari Hardened Scales, but dropped the idea.
October 13, 2015 8:09 a.m.
Mandalorian says... #3
Anyone surprised to see no Esper Dragons or Bring to Light in Atlanta?
I know Jeskai Atarka Red and G/W Megamorph are big right now, kinda felt like Bring to Light was a phase, but I'm surprised to see no Esper Control.
In fact there was only one control deck and it was a 5 color one
October 13, 2015 9:38 a.m.
Mandalorian says... #4
Correction: there was an Abzan control that got 27th
So, 2 control decks
October 13, 2015 9:40 a.m.
I'm surprised about bring to light... That seems like a skill intensive deck that pros would have a fun time playing :)
October 13, 2015 9:46 a.m.
Mandalorian says... #6
Fun maybe, but a winning deck Im not sure. We only got to see it briefly but it seems those that ran it are not anymore or have taken some time to look over the deck for improvements and revisions.
I wouldn't be surprised though if it doesn't show up except as a 1 or 2 of in the next couple tournaments
October 13, 2015 11:59 a.m.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #7
I would like to see a Bant Tempo deck with Bring to Light. It could grab powerhouses like Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip or niche cards like Harbinger of the Tides at any time. Maybe Bant Tempo will be a factor this meta?
October 13, 2015 12:04 p.m.
Mandalorian says... #8
There were some Bant Megamorph decks popping up if you like Bant. Unfortunately for cards like Jace and Harbinger of the Tides, Bring to Light decks aren't really looking to grab 2CMC cards. They're really looking at 4-5CMC cards to make the 5CMC cost of Bring to Light worth it i.e. Siege Rhino, Languish, Dragonlord Ojutai, Utter End.
October 13, 2015 12:16 p.m.
SpringingTiger says... #9
I was also surprised that there weren't any Bring to Light decks in the top 8. Having a Siege Rhino/Languish split card seems very good, and you can even give it flashback with Jace, Telepath Unbound. I do expect to see the deck do well at the PT this weekend.
October 13, 2015 12:36 p.m.
Why isn't Sagu Mauler used in standard more often? Just out of curiosity.
October 13, 2015 3:54 p.m.
Mandalorian says... #11
I really like the card but I think that its because it doesn't do anything when its flipped/color combination.
I used it in my Sidisi Whip deck a while back and it beat face. Liked it a lot. I just don't think anyone is playing a whole lot of Simic or Temur right now, Sultai leans towards control, and Bant is relying more on flyers like Dragonlord Ojutai and Dragonlord Dromoka.
October 13, 2015 4:17 p.m.
I'm thinking of modding the BFZ event deck since it seems fairly solid. However, I'm not sure if adding more Tasigur, the Golden Fang's would be a good idea or not. I'm also surprised I haven't seen ideas consisting of using Bloodsoaked Champion and Sidisi, Undead Vizier being ran. Any thoughts on those ideas?
October 13, 2015 5:29 p.m.
Dalektable says... #13
IcyFire81 Modifying the event deck can be done very effectively, but the way you described is not the way to do it. Tasigur is great but doesnt shine in the deck, Nantuko Husk and Zulaport Cutthroat are the best part of the deck. If you're interested, I have a list on my page called "Cutthroat Aristocrats".
October 13, 2015 5:36 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #15
Is it odd that i want to run Valorous Stance maindeck over Bone Splinters in my abzan aristocrats? It feels like the only creatures i need to kill are power 4 and up anyways since my gamelan usually involes going wide. Should i go into Abzan Charm maindeck instead?
October 13, 2015 11:52 p.m.
Abzan Charm let's you take care of Ulamog and Hangarback Walker etc.
Valorous Stance lets you protect a key Creature.
I guess it's based on what you most need.
October 14, 2015 12:02 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #17
I think I'll try charm first. Anafenza, the Foremost is a huge beating.
October 14, 2015 12:05 a.m.
Mostly just saying something to get subbed in here.
The two-set paradigm is a nightmare.
Money is real, magic cards cost money, standard rotation destroys wallets, more often standard rotation destroys wallets more often.
October 14, 2015 9:39 a.m.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #19
@kameenook More standard rotations means more cards in Modern more often, which is Wizards' confirmed preferred format.
October 14, 2015 9:42 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #20
@AndWelcomeToTheJam: You do realize that cards don't have to rotate out of Standard to become legal in Modern, right?
October 14, 2015 9:45 a.m.
Magic in General seems to be a lot of money... I think the best financial decisions I could have made would have been buying tons of Abrupt Decay and preordering Hangarback Walkers at $4.00. Those mistakes, combined with seeing 4 core sets rotate have left me feeling like it's hopeless to try and keep up with Standard. When I do play it's always something cheap, though this typically means the deck has 1 or 2 glaring weaknesses.
Playing something like a wienie deck full of Bloodsoaked Champion, Mardu Woe-Reaper and a Kytheon or two along with nice 2 drops is fairly cheap though. I mean you're using pain-lands because they are cheap and you need to win by T4 anyways. Sure the deck loses hard to certain cards but without Drown in Sorrow and Bile Blight I've been having a lot of fun.
Also I can't understand how nice it is to exile good cards from an opponent's graveyard that they otherwise might have gotten back with Den Protector.
October 14, 2015 9:48 a.m.
maddsurgeon says... #22
I think it's too early to make claims about the new rotation system - we need to see it in practice a few times. It could do some weird things to the market, but eighteen months instead of two years is not a drastic change.
There might be a danger if they keep the power-level so low that no new cards are Modern-playable for a while, but the last rotation wasn't really "wallet-destroying," as a lot of staples like Eidolon of the Great Revel and Thoughtseize maintained value due to Modern interest, the next rotation has fetches and Ugin and after that Atarka's Command and Hangarback Walker... when the powerful/popular cards are played in both formats you're not losing a lot of money during rotation if you trade smart.
Now if they introduce duals that are great in Standard and terrible in Modern, like with BfZ, it could be a problem, but I'm sure there will be some gems to leverage over the next couple years.
October 14, 2015 9:49 a.m.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #23
Right, but if a good card makes it into Modern, it likely increases in price when it stops being printed, i.e. fetchlands and Thoughtseize. I know that Thoughtseize was a reprint, but the Theros printing still will probably jump to $30 or so. Plus its art is better IMO :)
October 14, 2015 9:49 a.m.
Not to mention, Modern is not the preferred WOTC format - Limited and Standard are the grand majority of the income for wizards, since those are the formats that include 100% of the sets currently in print.
Edit: I appear to be typing very slowly. My comment is in response to the one 5 posts above this one.
October 14, 2015 9:50 a.m. Edited.
Modern is being pushed hard by WOTC as the preferred eternal format. However Standard is, was and always will be WOTC's preferred format in general, because: money.
October 14, 2015 9:53 a.m.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #27
I didn't mean preferred as in what makes the most money. I meant preferred as in what Wizards wants Magic to be played as. WotC cracks down hardest on the Modern format in tournament play and banlists, as well as the unwritten "Turn-4 Rule". You'll probably see a few major deck types popping up in Standard every so often (as of now it's mainly RDW and Abzan). From what I have seen, Limited is essentially Deck with Blue #1, Deck with Blue #2, etc. (and then there's the few people that like to live dangerously and don't play blue in Limited). But Modern simultaneously promotes and restricts expression more so than any other format in my opinion, to attempt to create a balanced scene for all who play. This leads to a wider variation of deck archetypes, based on what works and what doesn't, as well as what WotC deems works TOO well.
October 14, 2015 10:06 a.m.
Well, then you are mistaken in that definition as well.
"I didn't mean preferred as in what makes the most money. I meant preferred as in what Wizards wants Magic to be played as." From a company POV, these are synonymous.
WOTC "cracks down" on Modern with banlists and such measures because there is no other way to actually balance/disbalance the majority of the format. You never want to see bans in standard/limited (this has happened in very rare occasions).
Limited is most certainly not what you describe it to be, are you confusing it Legacy (which is also false)?
Nobody but yourself is stopping you from expressing your creativity, Johnny, in any format - whether your creative brew is successful, well, that is another story.
October 14, 2015 10:18 a.m. Edited.
@ Epochalyptik care to elaborate? For me the definition of an "Eternal Format" is, that there are no cards rotating out.
October 14, 2015 10:21 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #30
Eternal is different from non-rotating. Eternal means it uses cards from Magic's entire history, where non rotating means it doesn't rotate.
October 14, 2015 10:24 a.m.
@Putrefy - what you describe is a non-rotating format, which Modern is. What it is not is Eternal - includes all cards from every single magic set, minus the respective B&R; list - Pauper, Commander, Legacy, Vintage are the most prominent.
Think of it as "those formats where Supplemental sets are legal".
October 14, 2015 10:25 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #33
Well, I think MaRo has explicitly stated the difference multiple times.
October 14, 2015 10:38 a.m.
@Putrefy,
As I mentioned above, there are real gameplay differences between Eternal and Non-Rotating, otherwise True-Name Nemesis would be banned in Modern faster than you can say ... banned.
For some players, the difference matters and for others it does not. What you choose to call them does not change the fact that there is a difference.
October 14, 2015 10:39 a.m.
I bet you also reminded the teacher, when he forgot to give the class homework...
October 14, 2015 10:41 a.m.
How does that pertain to anything whatsoever? So childish! You are grounded, young man!
The definition of definition is that is a short reference to a broader concept. Does not suffer from rotation of the card pool rolls off the tongue harder than "non-rotating"; apply similar logic for "eternal".
P.S. I did do that, fun times.
October 14, 2015 10:49 a.m.
And you just can't stop... I can't stand pretentious people, that's all :)
October 14, 2015 10:52 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #39
I'm always unimpressed when someone who has been corrected complains about other people caring about his or her mistake.
Modern is a unique format. It's the only major non-rotating, non-eternal format. That identity creates specific design challenges for WOTC because developing for Modern requires developing for Standard, or at least being mindful of Standard. It also means that bans may be the only way to remediate specific problem decks because supplemental releases can't be used to bolster other decks and provide answers and printing powerful answers may damage Standard.
The difference matters. Whether you care about it does not.
October 14, 2015 10:52 a.m.
Yeah, but did the difference matter for the argument I made? Didn't think so...
October 14, 2015 10:54 a.m. Edited.
No, but YOU asked what difference was, got an explanation and complained that the person who gave you the difference is "pretentious" rather than say... informative?
Also, doing so in the most trolling way possible for no apparent reason.
October 14, 2015 10:57 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #42
Ultimately, no, if only because your arguments are still neither credible nor substantiated irrespective of that mistake. But your credibility is not helped.
October 14, 2015 10:57 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #43
I don't get it
Draft and standard are not the most pushed formats?
Modern isn't wotc favorite non rotating format?
October 14, 2015 11:04 a.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #44
I thought wizards likes Limited and Standard and doesn't give a fuck about Modern or Legacy but that's just what I've heard
October 14, 2015 11:14 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #45
From a design perspective, Limited is the first priority, then Standard and Modern.
From an income perspective, Limited is the most valuable because it sells the best. Standard also encourages purchases. Modern is not quite the same kind of driver when it comes to sale of sealed product; you don't really hear about people buying boxes over singles in order to get into Modern. Remember, WOTC only sells sealed product. It doesn't make anything from singles being sold in the secondary market.
October 14, 2015 11:17 a.m.
How about this: Regardless of the format, WOTC wants you to play. It does care and promote some formats more, but just by the fact that they still exist, other formats like Modern and Legacy are supported.
Here is for example, the Legacy conundrum:
Problem: Legacy does not get enough support from Wizards in terms of tournaments.
If Wizards organizes more Legacy tourneys, card prices rise. However, card prices are currently the greatest barrier to entry for Legacy.
So, the more tournaments Wizards organizes for Legacy, the less players will play in them just because of the main issue of legacy.
P.S. I promise this will be my last post about non-standard formats in this chat ever.
October 14, 2015 11:24 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #47
just a note here: there is an ultimate feel good resolving a lethal Rally the Ancestors vs UR Tutelage. Thank you WOTC SO MUCH for making that card an instant.
October 14, 2015 11:54 a.m.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #48
@Boza I know the Legacy format, but you still might be right in that I may be confusing it with something else. Vintage maybe?
@Putrefy, you'll get as dehydrated as this skeleton if you don't cut some salt intake from your diet.
@VampireArmy Curious, in what case would that be lethal? I thought all your creatures would have to have haste or something because they get exiled on your next upkeep, so off-color Temur Ascendancy seems odd, unless they're all allies and you have a Kalastria Healer? Yay, Standard talk in a Standard forum! (I started it, I know)
October 14, 2015 12:52 p.m.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #49
@Boza Ahhh, I just looked up Limited format, I didn't realize Sealed was Limited. My mistake!
October 14, 2015 1:12 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #50
goes like this. They mill me down to 16ish cards. means i have at least like 10 or more dudes in the grave. All of my dudes under 3 mana spawn more dudes upon dying.
Play Rally for 3
return all dudes to the field including 1 or more Nantuko Husk and 1 or more Zulaport Cutthroat
Sacrifice your team. Gain fuck tons of life. Drain them for lethal
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #1
@SpringingTiger, Thanks, this brought up several cards I previously missed! I instantly threw Caustic Caterpillar in the side, but I'm still debating on the others. I like having Drana, Liberator of Malakir for a board-wide boost, but if I'm sacrificing my creatures then it may not pay off as well as I think. I'm just having trouble finding spots for everything that I want.
October 13, 2015 8:03 a.m.