Competitive Combo Decks
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 26, 2014, 7:50 p.m. by MagicalHacker
Why are there no good combo decks? What would it take for one to exist? Why does WotC hate seeing Johnnies have fun at events? Or is it something else?
Combo decks tend to be non interactive - which means that the opponent has little chance to respond, make decisions and actually.... play the game.
For example - when my Teneb deck combos - it wins in a single turn and my opponents just have to sit and watch.
It's just not fun, like at all. It's fun for you a few times and then you start feeling awful (especially if you're talking about a win by T3 kind of combo).
Anyway - if you want to play combo, you should try your luck with modern and legacy / vintage. They're far more combo friendly formats.
January 26, 2014 7:59 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
There are just no viable combos in Standard right now. The format doesn't have the cards to support it.
Control and aggro have the benefit of always existing in any meta. Combo doesn't.
January 26, 2014 8:21 p.m.
miracleHat says... #5
If you want to have a combo deck, proxy a turn 1 win deck for vintage. They work pretty well (the first time at least, then your friends get Force of Will )
January 26, 2014 8:21 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #6
Well I already got a modern deck that's super combo, but now I'm stuck playing Orzhov control (I really like Blood Baron of Vizkopa aka "Amazing Racist").
January 26, 2014 8:56 p.m.
@ChiefBell: Combo decks are only non-interactive if you let them be. That's why they exist: to prey upon players who don't play removal and just try and race by other means. It's why combo decks have such a rough match against control, but have traditionally beat out aggro decks.
@Droxium: The only consistent turn one combo in Vintage is Glass Cannon Academy, and that loses to a single Force of Will . Or Chalice of the Void . Or Sphere of Resistance . Or Mana Drain . Or Lodestone Golem . Or Wasteland . Or a competent Dredge player. Or, other words, pretty much any other Vintage deck that can already deal with Tinker or Oath of Druids on turn one.
I say all of this because it's exactly why we don't see combo in Standard. Older formats have plenty of removal and answers. Modern has cards like Grafdigger's Cage to Gaddock Teeg to Nature's Claim . Vintage, EDH, and Legacy all have Force of Will , Wasteland , Flusterstorm , etc.
The problem with Standard is that combo will take over the format the way it did back in 1999 during Tempest/Urza's Saga-era Type 2. In order to have a competitive combo deck available, Standard would need multiple counterspells, enchantment/artifact removal, free spells, etc. So on top of having enablers for the combo decks, such as Dark Ritual or Grapeshot , set space would be taken up by cards focused on dealing with combo, like Mindbreak Trap .
Really the last time we saw a competitive combo deck in Standard was Affinity (Arcbound Ravager + Disciple of the Vault ), and it completely dominated the format. Wizards has learned its lesson when introducing consistent combo decks into Standard.
That, and little Timmy doesn't like it when you kill him on turn four, even though he has a 20/20 flying, indestructible, hexproof, trampling, unblockable dragon. Unfortunately, Timmy buys lots and lots of packs and plays more Standard than that griefer, Johnny-Spike.
January 27, 2014 1:35 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #8
Are we all forgetting Prosac's Burn at the Stake combo deck that made a splash pre-rotation? That to me was a perfect Standard combo deck, as it was consistent and fast enough competitive but wasn't so fast or difficult to interact with that it broke the format. It was also quite difficult to play correctly.
That said, there is an infinite combo lurking with Kiora's Follower x 2 and Illusionist's Bracers . Time will tell if someone can turn that into a viable idea, or if a great finisher for that pair will be printed. I like the idea of using Bane Alley Broker to find the card you need, and Mind Grind could be a great win con in those colors.
We also have the Elite Arcanist - Triton Tactics - Zhur-Taa Druid combo.
January 27, 2014 10:47 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #9
Here we go folks- A High School Dance (aka Infinite Grinding)
January 27, 2014 11:14 a.m.
@ChrisHansonBiomancin: Combo decks do show up in Standard, but they quickly fade away. Izzet Blitz and Human Reanimator, along with Burn at the Stake , are a few examples of combo that have emerged. But, none of them have performed well over long periods of time in Standard.
In contrast, ANT has been one of the decks to beat in Legacy and Vintage since Ad Nauseam was first printed and will continue to be one of the top contenders in both formats. Splinter Twin is among the top four best decks in Modern at the moment, and also isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Combo decks in Standard tend to stick around for about a month before they get abandoned or another set rotates in and nullifies the combo. Deathrite Shaman killed Human Reanimator, while Travis Woo's Izzet Blitz couldn't beat Jund Midrange or any B/G/x control deck because of Abrupt Decay and Gaze of Granite .
Combo decks exist, but often just aren't resilient enough to contend with other tier one decks in the format.
January 27, 2014 7:09 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #11
The reason I brought up the Burn at the Stake deck is because that one really never was exposed to my knowledge. Granted, it only existed for the short period between M14 and Theros, but the only thing that stopped it from being competitive was the rotation. It was making appearances in Pro tournies all the way through September.
MagicalHacker says... #2
Ughhhh the link didn't work....
mtgtop8.com/format?f=ST&meta=66
January 26, 2014 7:52 p.m.