Complicated boardstates
Standard forum
Posted on July 24, 2013, 8:57 a.m. by Demarge
I playtest a lot of mtg on tappedout, quite often I run into those games where there's so many options for one deck, but none seem to stand out.
So today I figured I'd upload the boardstate of the game and see what the community thinks the deck that with the options should do.
In the game it is currently the grixis control's turn and they have at least 4 options they can do. I'll be going to sleep now and when I'm back up I'll review what you guys think, follow that plan, and report the results.
I would probably Away Angel of Serenity since killing it seems bad with 2x Unburial Rites in the GY. This would force the Junk deck to hard cast it, thereby tying up mana and giving you time to beat face with AEtherling .
Is this before or after sideboarding? The current outlook is fairly grim unless you draw into a Rakdos Charm or Crypt Incursion .
July 24, 2013 9:39 a.m.
It's a game one, someday the playtester will be able to easily make sideboarding work. And don't you mean you'd Far angel? and wouldn't you also need to deal with trostani if the plan was to beat face?
July 24, 2013 9:52 a.m.
What was removed with Angel of Serenity ? If the control deck plays right he can clear your board of the biggest threats.
July 24, 2013 9:54 a.m.
angel is holding down just the pilgrim, the reanimator deck also has a pair of Unburial Rites sitting in the graveyard to think about.
July 24, 2013 9:56 a.m.
I don't know that there is a full proof way out of this for the control deck.
July 24, 2013 10:06 a.m.
angel just has Avacyn's Pilgrim exiled (though it did try exiling AEtherling ...
July 24, 2013 10:13 a.m.
Yeah, I meant Far the Angel. My bad.
Them gaining life isn't a huge deal considering you have an active Nephalia Drownyard . Using it against Reanimator sounds bad, but they have 4 more uses out of Unburial Rites (2 Flashback, plus the 4th Cast + Flashback if you don't mill it away) so your removal should be able to hold out. You can save the Turn / Burn for when an Angel exiles three value creatures.
July 24, 2013 10:15 a.m.
Matt_The_OGRE says... #12
cast Far / Away targeting the voice, see what else gets sacrificed. Make sure to leave open 3 blue mana. Then attack without making AEtherling unblockable and see if a block happens. if the angel is left and blocks, turn it leaving you with 1 blue mana. If trostani is left and blocks, pump AEtherling and kill it. If no block is made, pump aetherling with 2 blue mana and deal 6, still leaving you with 1 blue mana. Another round kinda like this one and you could have a victory. Kinda depends on what gets drawn for both players. If the junk deck draws a Mulch or something like that and puts a Craterhoof Behemoth into the graveyards its game over regardless.
July 24, 2013 10:19 a.m.
If you play around it, Voice is just a 2/2. However, if it attacks, AEtherling can kill it then Far the token. Or you can wait for a Pillar of Flame (which you have yet to draw) to take care of the Voice.
It'll be a serious game of attrition, but I think you can win it. You still have lots of removal and counterspells to draw.
July 24, 2013 10:21 a.m.
Matt_The_OGRE says... #14
oops! just noticed there is no Craterhoof Behemoth in that deck. In any case the Unburial Rites on the angel is not that much of an issue since there really isn't anything else to exile with it. And the control deck does have plenty of removal to draw into. Really i think it comes down to the next to draws though. Anything but removal for the control deck will make it a difficult game.
July 24, 2013 10:55 a.m.
I'd do nothing, presumably next turn, junk would attack with voice for either 2 dmg or to get a 3/3 token which they could populate and gain life. After you block / kill it while the ability is on the stack i'd instant both away's, forcing them to sac both angel and trostani leaving them with 1/1 voice token at the end of turn
July 24, 2013 4:26 p.m.
Um wow. That's actually really smart. Because that is actually what I was thinking to do against the control player. Demarge might lose this game unless he toodecks sonething that gaurantees killing aetherling. Which isn't much in most cases.
July 24, 2013 4:37 p.m.
or if junk swings out with all 3. turn the angel and burn the voice. that would force them to choose, gavony to save the voice +1+1 or save mana to unburial the angel in 2nd main phase.
if they gavony, they are left with voice / trostani, next turn i'd far trostani and away the voice leaving them with 1/1 token and forcing them to either unburial the angel or recast trostani next turn. and you still have 1 far / away left.
if they cast angel, and voice died, they have the token / angel / trostani....on your turn double away forcing them to sac 2 again.
July 24, 2013 4:38 p.m.
As someone with a lot of experience with my deck I can say I hadn't even considered attacking with more than the angel. There's no way I'd try to cash in voice when a control deck passed with full mana and 3 cards in hand.
Though I guess I should consider that line of thought from the control deck.
July 24, 2013 5:37 p.m.
Well it was bad for the control player. I followed xzavierx's strategy. On the reanimator deck's turn they attacked with angel only (because it puts control nearly dead and if they don't want that they'd have to cast a spell making a voice token anyway).
The control deck was rewarded with a pillar for their draw and they immediately tried to blow up the voice, reanimator responded with their topdeck, a resto angel, control responded with fused far/away, bouncing voice, reanimator sacced angel. Resto angel then comes in, reanimator gains life that AEtherling immediately takes away before flickering itself to defend next turn.
On reanimator's turn they draw a deathrite, cast voice gains life, flashback rites on serenity, target AEtherling only, control exiles AEtherling and reanimator gains life. Reanimator then attacks with trostani and resto angel bringing control to 3 life.
Control draws an Essence Scatter for the turn and realizes no matter what play they're dead to an attack so they scoop.
July 24, 2013 6:43 p.m.
I think we missed a step.
so control did nothing...on junk's turn they top deck resto angel and attack with only angel of serenity.
control responds by turning angel and blocking w/ aetherling and burning voice. at this time junk would have to choice between resto angel and gavony to save the voice. (token is created)
on control's turn 10.
if junk used resto to save voice on their turn 9, pillar would work and kill voice / exiling it leaving resto / token from voice (from turn/burn cast) and trostani. control could then 2x away, causing junk to sac 2 of them. leaving 2mana open to block / flicker.
if they used gavony to save voice they could double cast away causing the player to sac 2 creatures (token, trostani, voice) angel of serenity would be dead from turn and blocking) this would also leave 2 mana open for control to flicker aetherling.
or did i miss a step somewhere?
July 24, 2013 10:57 p.m.
xzavierx "control responds by turning angel and blocking w/ aetherling and burning voice. at this time junk would have to choice between resto angel and gavony to save the voice. (token is created)" didn't ever happen, reanimator simply attacked with angel only and left mana open for resto angel on it's turn 9. the rest of your comment follows that logic that didn't happen, that's around where you missed something.
July 24, 2013 11:41 p.m.
i was responding to your comment:
"The control deck was rewarded with a pillar for their draw and they immediately tried to blow up the voice, reanimator responded with their topdeck, a resto angel,"
the voice should have been killed by turn/burn burn the previous turn, unless resto angel was used to save it, in which case on controls turn, pillar should have been able to successfully kill it.
July 24, 2013 11:50 p.m.
so you're saying that if only serenity attacked you'd fuse turn/burn to try and kill voice on reanimator's end step? or are you saying that even if serenity attacked alone you'd use all 3 cards in your hand to try to leave reanimator with 2 or more voice tokens?
July 25, 2013 12:06 a.m.
Or maybe you're missing that voice makes tokens every time a spell is cast by an opponent during it's controller's turn?
July 25, 2013 12:11 a.m.
turn // burn can target separate creatures but only counts as 1 spell.
so junk has 3 creatures....angel of serenity, trostani and voice. and attacks with only angel of serenity.
you cast 1 spell in response, paying 5 cmc for turn / burn....turn angel of serenity and block it to kill it and burn voice. (creates token).
if junk response is activating gavony township, it saves voice. but doesnt have mana to stop pill on controls turn b/c it tapped down for gavony.
if junk responded by playing resto angel to save voice. on controls turn junk would have 4 creatures: (voice, voices token, resto angel, trostani))
on controls turn with all mana open, if junk went gavony route: double cast away forcing 2 sacrifices. this would leave 2 mana open for flicker. junk would have to sac 2creatures (voice, trostani, voice token). on junks following turn, they would have many to choose either cast resto OR unburial rites they angel of serenity and have a max 2 creatures left.
if control used resto to save voice. they wouldnt have mana for any additional moves. and would have (voice, voice token, resto angel, trostani) in play. on controls turn, they top deck pillar...pillar kills voice (no token from exile)...double cast away, 2 sac creatures. of the 3 left (voice token, trostani, resto angel) and you still have 1 mana open to flicker if junk on following turn unburial rites the angel of serenity.
July 25, 2013 12:31 a.m.
junk- trostani, voice, angel of serenityjunk-attacks with angel of serenitycontrol- turn//burn targeting angel and voice.junk- gavony to save voice, angel dies to aetherling block, voice token createdend turncontrol- tap 6 casting 2x away (2mana still open)junk- sacs 2 of (voice, voice token, trostani) end turn-junk- has 2creatures in play....assuming they sac'd voice and voice token they would have new voice token and trostanijunk-plays angel of sereneity out of GY with rites and passes turn (has serenity, voice token, trostani in play)end turn-control has pillar in hand and essence scatter (control will lose based on those draws in this scenario)
July 25, 2013 12:45 a.m.
hmm interestingly enough, control after playing away twice, would leave voice token (2/2) and trostani in play. they could pillar 2nd main phase leaving 1 land open and kill token wiith pillar.
that would mean next turn junk would have only trostani and serenity in play (from rites).
would all depend on next 1-2 draws
July 25, 2013 12:48 a.m.
I'll explain your first route.
reanimator attacks with only angel, you fuse turn/burn (turn on angel/burn on voice) before it resolves voice makes a token and trostani gains life, reanimator probably isn't going to skip keeping the pressure up just to save voice so they let voice and angel die by turn/burn block, voice then makes a token and trostani gains life.
In second mainphase reanimator flashes back rites on angel which will hold down voice and tries to hold down AEtherling (which it then would be flickered) on the endstep I would probably populate with trostani while control is nearly tappedout to avoid losing that option (and a boardwipe wouldn't change anything either). total that turn trostani would gain reanimator 21 life.
On control's turn they draw the pillar and then what would happen?
July 25, 2013 12:51 a.m.
hmm, so junk is tapped out, has trostani, angel of serenity (holding voice) and 2 voice token.
awful position for control to be in for sure.
in that case it would really depend on how you responded to 2 away's, if you sac'd both voice tokens, pillar would become useless and you'd probably in 2 turns
so for sake of fun :)
if you sac'd a creature and token , pillar would kill other token.
what did junk draw 2nd turn? if it was something useless , then control may have a chance it it picks up another turn/burn , far/away or bonfire lol. then it would just be fight over best topdecks lol
July 25, 2013 1:07 a.m.
ahh youre right, forgot about populate, controls dead to rites (excluding miracle bonfire).....pun intended!
July 25, 2013 1:20 a.m.
yeah unfortunately control's last draw before scooping was an Essence Scatter (and the post scoop check revealed a rakdos return I believe)
July 25, 2013 1:23 a.m.
ahh, well either way, this was a lot of fun, great post!
July 25, 2013 1:24 a.m.
It was entertaining to see the thought process of other mtg players, I might have to do this more often.
July 25, 2013 1:50 a.m.
Dunno whether this has already been said, but I'd Turn / Burn the voice, (both on voice), take a bit of damage, then Far the angel and Away the trostani next turn. Also attack with an unblockable AEtherling and blink it so untap it, leaving 1 mana open for an extra blink in case he draws removal.
July 25, 2013 2:07 a.m.
KrazyCaley says... #36
Turn / Burn the angel leaving open as much blue mana as possible seems like the correct play to me.
Demarge says... #2
And I guess I should thank jboons for building a deck to cause this sort of boardstate.
July 24, 2013 8:58 a.m.