control wincons
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 25, 2014, 5:40 a.m. by tyforthevenom
which of these makes the best wincon?
or other?
tyforthevenom says... #3
i'm talking creature based, and empty the pit's is highly situational wincon you need to atleast parly build your deck around that 1 card. planeswalkers are almost always wincons that will emediately get dealt with or end the game whether by proxy or by flat out winning (examples Jace Beleren wins by proxy but Jace, the Mind Sculptor flat out wins)
September 25, 2014 7:05 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #4
Empty the Pits doesn't need building around.
Like Revelation, it pretty much just gets better as you play your game, and can really just win your games.
September 25, 2014 7:42 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #5
every time i've suggested using it to people at my fnm's (most of which go to literally every ptq they can) they've said it's a bad card and if it wasn't instant speed it would be fully unplayable which is why my sultai control deck runs a singleton Villainous Wealth instead, that and i love making people die to their own deck
September 25, 2014 7:47 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #6
I mean, I'll trust the pros over a questionably true story on the internet, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
Pretty much all of team SCG is on board with the fact that EtP is a really efficient card.
September 25, 2014 7:51 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #7
that's what i think of the card but when i've got 20 people telling me it will not work bla bla bla it makes you wonder if they're right or if my gut is right... then again my gut has been telling me i'm hungry every second of every day for the last 25 years
September 25, 2014 7:56 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #8
You can say anything you want about "if x card were different this way it would be unplayable" but it IS instant speed and I don't think there is a better card to break a stalemate in khans than EtP. It showin up in several different builds, pretty much anything that runs black almost. Hyper aggro won't run it but it's a late game mana sink when the board stalls and you need a push.
September 25, 2014 8:55 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #9
Empty the Pits will be a fine 2-3x in a control deck. It certainly won't be the 4x Rev was, but it's still control's greatest late-game mana sink.
I kind of hate to be that guy, but generally the pros know exactly which cards are good and which are bad. This is the reason netdecking exists.
September 25, 2014 9:30 a.m.
MattTheNinja says... #11
Out of those, I think Tromokratis and Stormtide Leviathan are the best options. Tromo is mostly hexproof, and you'll presumably have the counter magic to stop any kill spells when he is attacking and the Leviathan just shuts down pretty much every creature except Wingmate Roc , Stormbreath Dragon , and the new Sarkhan right now and is unblockable.
September 25, 2014 10:11 a.m.
Empty the pits is good because its instant, but otherwise it's pretty bad. Trust the pros. The fact that its instant makes it so deliciously playable.
September 25, 2014 10:12 a.m.
Still somewhat confused about why people are insisting on playing control in the colours that don't give you access to the best board wipe in standard.......
September 25, 2014 10:13 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #14
I'm thinking because, in this case, there's access to counterspells, kill spells, and Courser of Kruphix .
September 25, 2014 10:23 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #15
MattTheNinja not to mention that tromokratis is either unblockable or board wipe as a creature
September 25, 2014 10:36 a.m.
Nigeltastic says... #16
Sometimes there are decks that can afford wrath on 6 and be good. I think sultai is that, it has superior single target answers. Also, Prognostic Sphinx is likely the best creature finisher, and either Empty the Pits or Villainous Wealth are the best non-creature finishers. They are both really strong game enders, and have different appeals, but are equally valid.
September 25, 2014 10:38 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #17
If you're running green control, the courser/caryatid duo is goin to keep you alive long enough to cast your big spells. AEtherspouts is pretty huge too, esp if Mardu takes off as the go to aggro.
September 25, 2014 10:50 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #18
my main problem with Prognostic Sphinx is it can't kill any creature that could block it
September 25, 2014 10:53 a.m.
In my Sultai I have 1 Empty the Pits , 1 Garruk, Apex Predator , and a few Polukranos, World Eater as game-winners.
And BUG also has Whelming Wave and AEtherspouts as quasi-boarddwipes. Not great, but Wave can last until you land Extinguish All Hope or just win.
In my experience, Empty the Pits is certainly good. The instant speed means you can hold onto mana for counters/kills or just EoT drop 7 2/2s. I've done that, and never lost after casting it thus far.
September 25, 2014 10:54 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #20
ahhh... stupid question, which is a better blocker in sultai control? Embodiment of Spring or Disowned Ancestor ?
September 25, 2014 12:17 p.m.
I can't look at Pearl Lake Ancient without bursting into laughter. R&D can be hilarious at times. (Article)
"Well, if both control players have big 6/7s, they can't attack into each other. So we gave it prowess, because That way, it can bypass the other control players Pearl Lake Ancient."
I can't wait to see that 7cmc 6/7 flash meta at the pro-tour. Shit just got real.
Chubbub says... #2
Elspeth, Sun's Champion =best control win-con if you're bant. Or Empty the Pits if you're sultai.
September 25, 2014 6:52 a.m.