Counter spell of choice for Midrange decks
Standard forum
Posted on Feb. 24, 2014, 8:13 a.m. by harrydemon117
Anyone run a midrange deck that uses counterspells? I'm looking for input on what you use and why specifically.
Epochalyptik says... #3
@EddCrawley: This post is in the Standard forum, so I'd assume Standard.
February 24, 2014 8:23 a.m.
Dalektable says... #4
What midrange deck are you running that uses blue? Bant?
Anyways though, midrange isnt one for counterspells. If any would be used i would say it would be a sideboard card, and something like a simple Essence Scatter or Negate . It would help if we had a deck list, as "midrange" is a whole archetype in itself so its hard to give advice.
February 24, 2014 8:26 a.m.
Depends on the colors and what exactly you're needing it for.
I'm a big fan of Plasm Capture and I'm using that in my midrange deck, but it fits a distinct niche and it's not for use in any given situation. Negate is something I bring in against control deck for counterspell wars or against decks heavy in planeswalkers, gods, or enchantments.
Dispel is possibly a better choice if you're strictly trying to with the counterspell battles, but you're likely to not win that becuase they will probably have more than one at that point. If you're in green and looking to resolve a creature, Savage Summoning is likely the better choice for the job. Fun fact: SS also works to resolve Gods as well.
Dissolve is an all-around decent counterspell, but if you're not in the right colors or archetype, you may find it to be more of a hassle than it's worth, which is why the cheaper costed counterspells or utility spells are preferred in those cases (like Essence Scatter or Syncopate ).
Lastly, if it's creatures you're worried about, you could go with a more tempo-centered route, using things like Azorius Charm , Simic Charm , Cyclonic Rift or just straight up removal (i.e. Doom Blade , Ultimate Price , Hero's Downfall ) to get the job done as you ready the board for your fatties.
Have a link to the deck?
February 24, 2014 8:32 a.m.
Spootyone ~ I hate to be a buzz kill but don't I THINK you can Negate a god card as when it is a spell it is still considered a creature until it actually resolves and devotion is checked. I say think like that because in truth I have no clue. That's just what looking at the cards makes me think. I just don't want that to cause you a play mistake at an event or anything.
February 24, 2014 9:02 a.m.
You know what? Youre absolutely correct. It's the same exact reasoning why Savage Summoning works as it does. Not sure how I slipped there lol.
February 24, 2014 9:07 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #8
Ok I'm sorry let me bit a bit more specific. I was trying to avoid posting the deck list as the forum title requested "No decklists" :)
Does it BUG you when I scry? Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 4 | 4 COMMENTS | 961 VIEWSI only want to run 3 counterspells total, and here is my reasoning for wanting to run them:
1) Using removal on a Gray Merchant of Asphodel doesnt help me if his ability gets to resolve when I'm low.
2) Being able to counter a Rakdos's Return from a Jund or Rakdos build (Grixis I guess too if it shows up or B/W/R midrange decks
3) Being able to counter an AEtherling or any other creature that's hard to remove (i.e, Mogis, God of Slaughter since he won't be a creature that often, and his "ping" ability is going to add up over time)
I want to run Essence Scatter main deck because it's so good in the current format, but i don't want to overload on them vs control matchups. I would like to run something like Dissolve or Syncopate as they seem to be the best counters to compliment my strategy.
February 24, 2014 9:08 a.m.
I would have to agree that your two best choices, then, are Dissolve and Syncopate . I am sort of leaning towards syncopate in your case simply because most of those threats are being tapped completely for. The only fringe case would likely be AEtherling , but odds are they aren't going to be playing him into possible counterspells anyway. But for RR or SR, syncopate feels like the way to go. It also stops the T2 Sylvan Caryatid or BTE on occasion.
Alternatively, if you find yourself for some reason having tons of not-often-used mana floating about, you could go with Dissolve . It really does require playtesting to figure this out though.
February 24, 2014 9:14 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #10
Yeah I've been doing a fair amount of that in preparation for the upcoming GPT in my area already. I was wondering if anyone else has tested this out and had some input on a particular counterspell over another
February 24, 2014 9:18 a.m.
When I was testing "normal" bant midrange/control, I used Dissolve
as a 3-of and had Syncopate
as a 2-of in the sideboard to swap in against midrange and other various deck who really enjoy tapping out for cards. I also had 2x Negate
to bring in against control. It seemed to work fairly well for me!
February 24, 2014 9:21 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #12
Sounds like you were a bit more control heavy though right? Probably running things like Supreme Verdict and company?
I think I'm leaning more towards Syncopate
as against midrange it's a good hard counter as they will most likely tap out for it. It's still a good counterspell vs aggro early as they are looking to curve out and if I go to a late game I against aggro i shouldn't have to counter anything at that point. It's also easier on MY mana as I only need to have 1 blue and running cards with double mana costs (as I already have a decent amount as is) can be bad.
Thanks for the input guys!
February 24, 2014 9:35 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #13
How about running mostly Essence Scatter main, and sideboarding vs. control? You've got a lot of midrange stuff to play, and probably don't want to waste the mana on Syncopate unless you absolutely have to. Sounds like most of your problems are with creatures anyway.
February 24, 2014 9:51 a.m.
I agree with SharuumNyan. It appears to me that most of your issues lie with creatures so I would go main board Essence Scatter and then if you go against control side in either Negate , Dissolve or Syncopate .
February 24, 2014 10:02 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #15
The problem I have with that is game 1 vs decks like U/W and Esper that run Elspeth, Sun's Champion , Essence Scatter is a DEAD card. In the instant where they run a 1 of AEtherling to compliment E-S-C, they will probably have an Elixir of Immortality also to cycle them back in. If I use Syncopate on either of these 6 CMC win cons, they don't get it back as I exile the card instead.
I would also like the ability to counter something other than a creature if need be, Bwhether it is a planeswalker, Underworld Connections , Bident of Thassa , or a spot removal spell against one of my creatures.
February 24, 2014 10:41 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #16
Game 1 vs. control, most decks have dead cards. That's why control matches are more likely to go to three games.
February 24, 2014 11:01 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #17
Lol. The other piece of information that I didn't give previously is that my current 15 doesn't have room for counterspells in the sideboard. It's full with things to change for my removal packages, and to swap out some creatures for Skylasher against monoblue.
Overall, I'd like to keep the 3 counterspells in the maindeck as versatile as possible
February 24, 2014 11:34 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #18
There is no such thing as versatile removal though...not since Counterspell was legal.
February 24, 2014 11:57 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #19
I meant versatile counter. Removal is much easier to work with.
February 24, 2014 11:58 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #20
What do you mean no versatile counters? Anything that doesn't state what it specifically "counters" is by definition versatile. What I meant to imply was I don't like running too many "focused" cards like Essence Scatter
because if I play against a deck that doesn't use creatures (turbo fog, Maze's End
, Esper &/or U/W control) I have a dead card.
The spells that I am thinking of are: Dissolve , Syncopate , Psychic Strike etc. They all have "Counter target spell" and don't specify WHAT they counter. Seeing as this is going to be a long tournament that I am going to attend this weekend (GPT for Cincinnati), I want it to run as consistent as possible
February 24, 2014 1:42 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #21
Sure, there's "versatile" counter...if you don't mind paying 3 mana for it. That one extra mana can make a huge difference, and that's what makes it non-versatile. Four counters that cost a total of 12 mana vs. four counters that cost a total of 8 mana - that kind of mana-waste changes the outcome of games. I still think it's a better strategy to use well-planned spot removal than paying more for open counter right now.
February 24, 2014 2:04 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #22
So from what I'm understanding from you is: drop the counterspells and go with more removal?
February 24, 2014 2:18 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #23
I would mainboard Dissolve . It can hit everything, and doesn't have any restrictions. 1UU isn't terribly hard to get to in a 2 color deck. Then depending on your matchup, adjust with your sideboard. Lots of creatures? Essence Scatter it is. If you have an idea that your meta is one way or another, you could plan for that too.
EddCrawley says... #2
What format are you looking for?
February 24, 2014 8:18 a.m.