Deathmist raptor or den protector hit
Standard forum
Posted on June 13, 2015, 3:47 a.m. by IndepenentMeta
Omg I was playing at my locals today and I've played this guy a few times. It goes ok then once he started dropping death mist raptor it started getting fucking heavy somehow this guy always had the mana to manifest and morph creatures at will which would cause death mist grave yard ability to trigger. In short words this shit is broken... Reasons why I think it should be banned are
It's an infinite. In the game of magic there is no restriction list nothing gets hit to 1 or 2 or even 3. So this would allow for you to run 4x copys of it. So basically if one gets path to exile no worries Chet I got 3 more...
Very easy triggers. It's ability triggers Wenever a monster gets flipped face up wen I say this I didnt think much of it. Until I ran into a few test rounds with one of my friends playing it. Basically if an opponent have five mana up its gonna cost you. A plus trigger for den protector plus for the raptor, then an easy chum block,
This is also trigger related. If the right amount of mana is up like let's say 5 for the o den protector. It could spell out minus. Oppoenent sets down fd creature. Waste one card from hand try to hit the face down morph o flip it face up grab my raptor grand a trap...
Then it's splashed into one of the easiest commands in the game dromokas command. Dromoka makes it a 4/4 death touch easily able to block and attack for near quarter hits. This shouldn't be allowed I'm the game.
I'm saying it needs the banned hammer quick. It's in no form or shape "balanced". Having answers such as utter end for the card is not a valid excuse. Seeing that you could run multiple copies aside from the other threats the deck brings. Having a small answer like utter end isn't good enough. One survives and it's he'll on wheels..
Okay, so the two most powerful things in standard is currently (at least by my reckoning)
(1): Dragonlord Ojutai + Silumgar's Scorn
(2): Deathmist Raptor + Den Protector
If you cannot beat both these things, your deck is not competitive. That's just it.
June 14, 2015 10:04 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #3
Yah well those are the gate keepers in magic right now.
June 14, 2015 12:29 p.m.
And as such, not being able to beat one of those two makes your deck non-competitive, and as such you opinion skewed.
June 14, 2015 3:21 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #5
Making top 8 doesn't count towards that right? I figured...
June 14, 2015 4:02 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #6
Lol can someone tell this kid that every deck has its match ups... What's your poison? Mardu dragons? Esper dragons? Sultai? RW aggro? Ugin mana ramp? Abzan? Jeskai ascendancy combo? Heroic? There's plenty of decks out there and I'm pretty sure even you have some problems wit one of these...
June 14, 2015 4:04 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #7
I won't even go that far
This is the deck list I am using. And I can beat you anything I can beat you with it
June 14, 2015 4:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
"Lol fight me" has never been a credibility-building response.
June 14, 2015 4:15 p.m.
Okay, a couple of things:
(1): Top 8 at FNM is meaningless without knowing how competitive it is. You telling me how competitive it is is meaningingless because you've shown evidence of not knowing how competitive a deck is.
(2): I have been trying really, really hard to explain this to you in the nicest possible way despite your reputation. Calling someone kid and talking down to them is not helping your case at all.
(3): I have no problems with any of those decks. My current standard deck is GW Devotion, and while I'm not going to say I'll win against all of those decks every match, and I might be the underdog in some, I can beat every deck you just named.
(4): I can beat that deck. Not every game, but I can beat that deck. You want to play me? Give me a time after Tuesday. Cockatrice, untap.in. I'll play you in a heartbeat. But then again, you'll probably come up with an excuse as to why you can't play, right? Considering you've done that any other time you've been called out.
June 14, 2015 4:19 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #10
Lol well dude How can this guy say my deck isn't competitive wen I've told these guys I'm making top tables every weekend? It's a scum bag tactic for him to be talking bout my deck like that and not even know what the build looks like. I've done that kinda shit in yugioh where I called someone out we took it to duel network and guess what happens? I kick their butt every single time. Maybe like 2-3 people have gotten away with beating me due to bad hands but that shouldn't matter cause I would come out having a bigger win rate...
June 14, 2015 4:20 p.m.
Making top tables at FNM. FNM is not competitive.
And again, name a time after Tuesday and I'll play you.
June 14, 2015 4:23 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #12
If you don't wanna be called a kid or talk down to first your gonna have to show me some respect. Telling me my deck is not competive wen you yourself know I'm making the board. Is very disrectful... So if you want me to "tone it down" I would suggest you learn how to speak to me. Otherwise that is only gonna stay a re for people like you. N I've beaten GW devotion match ups... Before den protector n death mist. It was the instant win for my deck. I would love to play you via tapped in but you know your little Internet friends don't wanna see me shut you guys up....
June 14, 2015 4:25 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #13
Lol it's always those excuses with u people. Omg doing that isn't competive, omg this isn't that, just because you did this doesn't mean anything.... Wen r u guys gonna stop making up excuses not to give a man some credit suck it up. N admit you are wrong about 100% percent of the time. I mean given your ignorant statements in the past, i'm sure you don't kno how to accept that there are players that can embrass you. And I'm one of them...
June 14, 2015 4:29 p.m.
Okay, so are you reading my posts? The first time I suggested, in the nicest possible way, that your deck may not be competitve based on the facts you presented.
Again, you say that you make top tables on FNM, but that's not competitive. So it proves nothing.
I never said tone it down, and I have no idea why you would try to make out like I did.
I speak to you the same as I do anyone else, and considering your attitude I'm regretting the decision.
And I've beaten UW control playing WB Heroic last season. One off proves nothing. And if it was an instant win for your deck, you aren't playing very good GW Devotion players.
Before Deathist and Den Protector. And you can't beat those cards now. Therefore, you cannot beat my deck by your own admission.
Then play me. Name a time after Tuesday.
June 14, 2015 4:30 p.m.
I've made no excuses.
I've called what you're doing non-competitive because you cannot beat a significant part of the competitive meta.
You're acting like a child. You don't deserve any credit.
Prove you can embarass me. Give me a time and a date.
June 14, 2015 4:32 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #16
Lol Or I'm just that good... But ey lol who am I right?
Epochalyptik come on man let me do this...
June 14, 2015 4:33 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #17
Lol bro your acting like a try hard bitch... Lol here let write the famous try hard excuses...
"Your deck is not competitive"
"your not playing good people, those people may have beaten me in the past... But their not good"
" your acting like a little kid" personal favorite because your the one going on to people's pages throwing Insults like a little kid.
The point is grow up... If you have nothing nice to say don't say nothing... Because I'm sure people like you have been proven wrong in the past...
June 14, 2015 4:38 p.m.
Those aren't excuses, they're statements. If you don't know the difference try a dictionary.
Who are these people you've beaten that have beaten me?
Let me try to explain this for you. Your behaviour is childlike in that you're given helpful advice by someone, but it conflicts with what you think you know so you lash out.
Before you called me a kid, I said nothing impolite to you in the slightest.
Who are people like me? I've been proven wrong before, but never by you.
June 14, 2015 4:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #19
You know, looking back on it, I don't know why I thought trying to help you post intelligently would be productive.
June 14, 2015 4:42 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #20
No dude because you guys are always like 100 percent sure about Wat you guys are saying. So I try explaining how you guys might be wrong then I receive the classic your a troll your dumb you don't know magic comments and as you can tell those kindas of statements are enough to make a person agrrovatived. Honestly dude I can name some of the things those little pro guys tell u and how badly their wrong but u won't listen because your ignorance blinds you far beyond what I can fix...
June 14, 2015 4:45 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #21
Epochalyptik because theres rules against what their doing as well as what I'm doing In Response
June 14, 2015 4:47 p.m.
I get the feeling you really aren't paying attention to what I've been saying, so I'm done. You think cards should be banned because you can't beat them? Go for it. Scream it from the rooftops. You've been given valid reason why they souldn't be and have ignored them. So you're not worth helping.
And what rules have I broken?
June 14, 2015 4:49 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #23
If you think you can "correct" pros, be our guest. You could change the game forever, you know.
And awphutt has done nothing wrong and nothing untoward. Don't presume to educate me on site rules.
June 14, 2015 4:50 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #24
See now you time it down a bit... I don't have a problem with that. But I've posted serval threads on this site where I make statements trying to develope the meta game. And all I've ever received is negativity. It's sucks cause I really wanna tell "pros" that's there's more ways to play magic. And typically wouldn't you believe I would feel the same why about getting bashed for making my statements and my points only to get shut down by a bunch of trolls... It sucks. Mostly people who don't think interactions are broken are the people running those cards. They don't think stuff like that is broken because its basically what's winning them their games. Take you for example you don't see anything wrong with Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor because you are running them. But I am more than sure in another format or another set you ran into something where you said oh this is too broken. And people who run the cards tell you it's not. Why because people wanna win... You guys always forget to factor some of the key importance to the game. But I'll tell you Wat imma suit up my deck and play another game versus this deck and I'm going to beat it. Why because that's just Wat I do.
June 14, 2015 5:03 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #25
I posted a very long response on your wall detailing exactly why you get shut down every time.
June 14, 2015 5:08 p.m. Edited.
IndepenentMeta says... #26
Yeah I know I was already at the part where I was accepting Deathmist Raptor and trying to figure out a game plan for my next match wit you guys but this guy just tried flaming me. Anyways I have another topic I wanna talk bout
June 14, 2015 5:14 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #28
I like to use the sideboard to pack color hate, Encase in Ice is good here if you have access to blue. I find most colors have decent hate and with all the 2 and 3 color mana sources it isn't hard to have a varied sideboard. I think that's really the point of the sideboard, and I think the current meta has its fair share of answers in every color. Indestructible is still a thing that makes deathtouch irrelevant, and there's a ton of great fliers that will pressure the skies more than their 2 copies of Dromoka's Command can handle. I don't like the idea of any card being banned in Standard, just doesn't feel right.
June 14, 2015 5:59 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #29
Yeah man that card is a good one versus the GW match up. But unfortunely I'm just running UB. I have copies of that white spell that does nearly the same thing but unfortunely it does not have flash.
June 14, 2015 6:18 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #30
Would be funny to make a deck designed specifically around beating that one
June 14, 2015 6:44 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #31
Lol give me the build and ill start picking up the pieces
June 14, 2015 6:49 p.m.
Just my 2 cents here... My local meta plays loves Azban control/midrange... and there are 3 different people at FNM who play the deck. Infuriating as hell is an understatement, but I work around the raptor instead of trying to kill it.
I run a UW Heroic deck which performs averagely against most people..
Sideboard in Pacifism to nullify the Raptor and I don't even bother addressing it. Aegis of the Gods to protect against Thoughtseize and Negate to protect against Hero's Downfall until I can get Narset Transcendent out and provided I can cast her ultimate, I'm in the clear.
June 16, 2015 11:48 a.m.
June 16, 2015 11:54 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #34
Yeah I have a few copies of that card on my side board but my question was how well does it work? Like could it win u a game or two?
June 16, 2015 12:20 p.m.
It's hard to say if a single card can win games or not... it definitely does keep me alive longer when I can play it.
It's a trade off of a short term loss versus long term gain... With a UW heroic aggro deck, I win by attacking hard and attacking fast... I'll usually keep one dual land untapped just in case I need to toss in Gods Willing or Stubborn Denial without it really affecting the pace of my play. So it does slow me down considerably to have to keep 3 lands untapped to play Dissipate instead...
That having been said, countering Hero's Downfall early and having it go to the graveyard, only to be resurrected by Den Protector So that I have to use a 2nd counter/protection card to deal with it the 2nd time, for it to be resurrected a 3rd time definitely does get old.
It's a trade off... I slow myself down to lessen the amount of times I need to deal with the card. If I win, I'm winning by Turn 5/6 at the latest... So statistically I'm only going to see Downfall once legitimately... the rest will all be Den protector shenanigans.
June 16, 2015 2:05 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #36
I'm looking at Turn to Frog for answers since that will negate the counter and the grave tutor... Wat do you think?
June 16, 2015 2:15 p.m.
Izu_Korasu says... #37
It wouldn't help, the flipping action of morph/manifest doesn't use the stack so you cant respond to that. You could respond to the triggers that activate from flipping, but im semi-certain that the counter and tutor would already be on the stack and resolve as planned. they don't seem to require den protector's ability past the initial trigger that puts it on the stack, so den protector losing its abilities from Turn to Frog wouldn't help much)
Burn Away however, would both destroy the den protector (fizzling the counter) and remove all possible targets from the graveyard (fizzling the tutor) before those triggers resolve.
June 16, 2015 3:03 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #38
Ugh the stupid morph rule... That's gonna mess some shit up later on. I would need to splash some red in there but I could use it
June 16, 2015 3:11 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #39
Well, Morph has been around since the Onslaught block and hasn't really borked anything yet. The fact that you have to unmorph the creature to have it do anything besides attack or block actively balances Morph cards.
June 16, 2015 3:22 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #40
Yeah but that's because the closest thing we have to broken on the mechanic is the den protector death mist synergy other than that none of the other morphs have potential besides stratos
June 16, 2015 3:41 p.m.
Izu_Korasu says... #41
just imagine if Ixidron was reprinted
Curse of the Swine is an option for targeting a bunch of threats at once and removing them for good (in blue)
Daxos of Meletis goes underneath both a flipped den and deathmist raptor and lets you take their stuff (hitting something with delve give alot of life)
Garruk, Apex Predator makes 3/3 tokens that take some sting out of their abilities/trade with them (Ashiok is also fun cause "generderless" takes their stuff)
... actually i could see a Azorius midrange deck being somewhat fun for these threats .. featuring daxos of the lifegain/take your stuff and Ojutai anticipating about
IndepenentMeta says... #1
I actually have had no problem with Dragonlord Ojutai in my last expo tourney I took out esper dragons fairly quick with jund dash. I actually been wanting to get my hands on some of those Dragonlord Ojutai just to see what I can try to brew wit it other than uW dragons. Yah I've seen deathmist get played like that but god is he annoying.. Stall big threats spam spam spam, super annoying
June 13, 2015 9:19 p.m.