Duskmantle Seer useful or not?
Standard forum
Posted on March 20, 2013, 8:26 p.m. by mmdw34
Im running a dimir mill and kill deck. I dont run alot of creatures besides consuming aberation and jace phantasm. Do you think it would be useful in a mill and kill deck? heres a link to the deck let me know what you think? Milling and Killing
Schuesseled says... #3
he gives both you and your opponent a card, therefore doesn't improve card advantage unlike his uber-expensive cousin Dark Confidant, but even so he hurts your opponent if they are playing a deck which uses a steeper/higher mana curve, and also allows you to play a lot of stuff, assuming your running a low mana curve. Could be especially good if your deck is running Syncopate pay 1 life to get a counterspell for that dragon you just paid 8 life for, yes please.
March 20, 2013 8:41 p.m.
Wizard of the Damned says... #4
The Wizard agrees with the above statements. If thy are running low CMC spells and the extra draw ability is not only helping you dig faster in your spellbook, but the loss of life to thine opponent could be vast quantities due to large amounts of midranges so it would consistute playing such a tome in a deck like that in my opinion
March 20, 2013 8:53 p.m.
IT'S A TRAP
No seriously, this card is a trap. The reason why it's not good because it doesn't afford any card advantage. It's hard to find a situation that it will strictly help you.
You: High CMC Control
Opponent: Low cost aggro
In this situation, you simply giving the card-starved aggro deck an advantage. The whole point of the control deck in this matchup is to keep cards in hand, many more than the opponent; you are destroying the advantage and adding fuel to the fire. However, you can find that clutch boardwipe to save the day, disregarding the fact your opponent has many more creatures in hand to beat you down with.
You: Aggro:Them: Control
Well, the card is in the wrong colors for aggro, so most likely you deck isn't as strong as it can be. However, I could see this card working in BUG aggro. However, this card gobbles Searing Spears for days, cannot be hit by Ultimate Price, and does not trade with any current control card, as it flies over threats such as Boros Reckoner and Thragtusk and kills Restoration Angels straight out. For BUG aggro, I see this as a good sideboard against certain control.
Aggro vs Aggro.
This is an ok choice. There's nothing that hurts you or helps you. Whoever is not running draw/whoever has the least card advantage (getting 2-for-1ed while using Rancor) will get the benefit. I would recommend SB
Control vs Control
This is an ok place also. Again, whoever gets the luck in the draw really wins this. However, the draw being on your turn helps as board wipes cannot hit you until the next turn and yours hit right after you draw. Definitely SB material, but make sure that they have a good amount of draw power already (like yourself) before you side in something like this.
March 20, 2013 9:23 p.m.
cartwheelnurd says... #6
You have a mill deck, so you're trying to be slow. Surviving against aggro is already hard enough. Surviving against aggro plus taking damage every turn and giving them fuel is not going to give you enough time to mill them out. I built a grixis low cmc deck called Duskmantle wants you Dead. which I think uses him well because i barely get hurt and the deck is aggressive enough to be able to use the extra cards immediately. In a mill deck you won;t be able to use it the right way.
March 20, 2013 9:38 p.m.
well let me give u my expierences. 1st round I played another mill deck I milled his liliana of the veil and jace memory adept every time went 1-2 but then he sided in witchbane orb and I was done I couldnt do anything. Then I played some messed up stupid deck that had like rakdos return, grisel brand, thragtusk I had no problem milling him alot I won 1-2 I just got card screwed I went 5 turns with mana.... it was upsetting. 3rd game I played humans I got champion of parished to death and then he found out I was milling and boom I got pooped by witchbane orb again so went 2-0 and then I played this idiot who takes forever we almost drew but I won the 1st game he won the last 2 and then 5th game got a bye for being 0-4. I never had trouble milling for anything and could take out most threats but now I added more creatures so I can block and be on offensive more. Im gonna try the dustmantle seer friday to see how it goes and update
March 20, 2013 10:35 p.m.
I like the idea of running Duskmantle Seer with cards like Appetite for Brains or Duress. - Low cost cards to make you lose little life if revealed. - If the card they reveal is a threat, you can get rid of it... if not, all the better.
Then use Dimir Charm so you can control what will be on-top of anyone's Library.
Griptide type of effects could be useful as well as it's removal, plus punishment for using larger CMC creatures... Though I think Griptide might be a bit expensive... with Esper, you could use Azorius Charm
March 20, 2013 10:44 p.m.
dimir charm was not useful at all for me. I either never pulled it or it ended up just two mana and something stupid they didnt need anyways. I took it out because it just didnt help being effective but with duskmantle seer it might be more useful but as of now I am going to try the duskmantle and see how it goes.
March 20, 2013 11:02 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #10
I have duskmantle seer, in my own deck bud, mind taking a loook.
March 21, 2013 6:52 a.m.
I think it's a terrible card and I'd rather run Thragtusk, Sphinx's Revelation, Supreme Verdict, Bonfire of the Damned, Jace, Architect of Thought or any of the other control cards we have available in standard right now for the reasons fireteam stated.
Even in BUG aggro, I'd rather play BUG zombies or a version of the Golgari Aggro deck floating around with blue splash WITHOUT using Duskmantle Seer. Garruk Relentless Flip is a far better four drop in that kind of deck.
March 22, 2013 7:13 a.m.
I concur, I am huge fan of Garruk Relentless Flip
Also, simply having one-sided draw simply seems better than this card currently.
March 22, 2013 4:20 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #13
I like Duskmantle Seer, i think people are getting caught up in a trap themselves, he looks like Dark Confidant so people think "why doesn't he give me card advantage, wah", when back in reality we know that winning in this game is more than just about who has the bigger card advantage, Duskmantle Seer has a lot of momentum, at the high end of your mana curve, he can push a low CMC deck forward to victory. When your opponent is also playing a low CMC deck, it might be wise to consider sideboarding him for something else, but till then.
March 22, 2013 5:14 p.m.
@Schuesseled: The only thing more important than card advantage is tempo, which is about the same in terms of goals. The thing is, Duskmantle Seer doesn't offer enough tempo to offset the card disadvantage. Compared to any of the other staple control cards that offer huge swings in tempo, or other ridiculous four drops (like Hellrider ), Duskmantle Seer is just terrible.
March 23, 2013 3:52 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #15
The only way you could measure tempo would be to play a lot with him, which you clearly haven't done. He pumps out cards into your hands, yes he might also give an opponent an answer to what you draw, but if you aren't able to turn those extra cards draws into further momentum to further card advantage and "tempo" then you are terrible at building decks.
In my deck example, BUG's up inside ya: Duskmantle Seer can fetch, Zameck Guildmage 's and Strangleroot Geist 's to allow me to use them for card advantage, whereas with another creature those two might have stayed in the library useless till a couple of turns later.
March 23, 2013 6:37 a.m.
@Schuesseled: On turn four Duskmantle Seer doesn't alter the state of the board the way a planeswalker or other large creature does, like Falkenrath Aristocrat or Jace, Architect of Thought .. You don't get to say I'm terrible at building decks when you think tempo is a made up term and then link me to a deck with zero three drops, two four drops, and the rest under CMC two.
March 23, 2013 6:50 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #17
Your only proving my point by assuming that a deck without cards with exactly 3 cmc are terrible.
It's designed to be a low cost deck, because i intend on funneling all the rest of my mana on abilities, namely, Zameck Guildmage 's.
March 23, 2013 6:57 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #18
And Duskmantle Seer doesn't alter the board state on it's own (nor do a lot of cards) but with evolve triggers, he most certainly does.
March 23, 2013 6:59 a.m.
@Schuesseled: This is MtG101. Decks with low mana curve around 1.5 are generally combo decks designed to win before turn 4 when their cards are strongest. Your turn three plays for your deck are hoping you have a two drop with either Cloudfin Raptor or Young Wolf to go with it. Compare that to Naya Blitz dropping Boros Reckoner on their turn three or a control player casting Supreme Verdict off of Farseek after you've played your plethora of 1 drops.
More often than not, you'll just play your third land, cast another two-drop, and pass the turn.
March 23, 2013 7:15 a.m.
My deck worked pretty smooth I went 3-2 no problem. I milled two people out and consuming abberationed people to death lol. My only mistake is I played another mill and he pulls out witchbane orb so he played a consuming abberation and I was trying to pump his up by milling myself and I went to grisly spectacle it and win but I realized I didnt leave 4 mana I had 3 so that was poop on my part lol. But overall I like this deck duskmantle seer was really cool people top deck thundermaw and i pull a land or like a dream twist its cool. I dont have anything over 3 besides consuming abberation. Im going to work on the sideboard a little to make sure I can switch momentum when I need to kill alot more creatures but overall great deck to far im happy with it. Just need 2 more watery graves
March 23, 2013 10:13 a.m.
@Schuesseled: That's wonderful. Now, how are your 2/2s going to deal with the 3/3 still out on the table? What if they Boros Charm the Boros Reckoner ? Or Restoration Angel ? You now have to wait until turn four to get out your Duskmantle Seer , just so you can try to make a trade.
March 23, 2013 1:43 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #23
They cast both the reckoner and the charm on turn 3, what kind of monstrous deck am i playing against, maybe i should just scoop.
And my 2/2's can be enchanted and pumped.
mtg_deckmaster says... #2
Seeing as the meta today runs lots of high costed creatures, I think the seer would be pretty good. Most standard decks today tend to run Thragtusk, Falkenrath Aristocrat and high costed removal and planeswalkers. If you have the seer, they will lose large chunks of life fast.
March 20, 2013 8:39 p.m.