Firedrinker, am I missing something
Standard forum
Posted on Dec. 24, 2013, 12:56 a.m. by Ultimaodin
Why do so many red decks run Firedrinker Satyr in the mainboard?
Each time I look at him I just raise my eyebrows. I can see how having a 1drop 2/1 against an Esper control deck could be useful but in that regards Rakdos Cackler is simply better. Against midrange decks Firedrinker Satyr often becomes a bit of a useless card since you can't swing into a bigger creature and nor can you really block with it. I've even seen Firedrinker run in a Gruul deck, which baffled me completely since you could run Legion Loyalist instead who plays so damn well with Bow of Nylea and a tone of creatures like Burning-Tree Emissary that can come out in rapid succession. When Firedrinker Satyr got spoiled I immediately thought it was a junk rare that probably would have been alright if his fire breathing just cost one red mana. Yet he went up to $8.. WTF? Even against other aggro decks using him to trade with will only hurt you. The only time I see him as decent is if running Legion Loyalist with him so you don't let him get struck or giving him doublestrike with Fireshrieker or some other way so his trade off doesn't hurt you but then your just putting extra resources in for one card I honestly can't see to be that good.. Again though you may as well just play Rakdos Cackler since your better of playing more critters in red deck than using the fire breathing.
I can see him as a reasonable alright sideboard against control but as a mainboard I just shake my head at it. Maybe somebody could help give a clear reason why people run him?
The Doctor says... #3
Devotion.
Two Power that gets stronger, aggro doesn't give two shits about life.
One drop.
That's all you need to know. The amount of people who ask this same question is unreal.
December 24, 2013 1:04 a.m.
Can we just like ban this question forever please haha. It's getting old.
December 24, 2013 1:08 a.m.
Tradeylouish says... #5
I think it's time to start keeping track of the number of times this question has been asked, alongside my "Does Silence counter spells?" tally.
December 24, 2013 1:16 a.m.
thataddkid says... #6
First off, Firedrinker Satyr is around 80 cents right now, not 8 dollars.
In my eyes, there's three kinds of mono-red in standard right now. The first, most midrange is mono-red devotion, running Rakdos Cackler , Magma Jet , Lightning Strike , Ash Zealot , Young Pyromancer , Boros Reckoner , Purphoros, God of the Forge , Fanatic of Mogis , and Stormbreath Dragon . Their basic plan is to use highly red saturated creatures to activate Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and drop Stormbreath Dragon , drop Fanatic of Mogis on a devoted field, or just grind them out with Purphoros, God of the Forge 's interaction with Young Pyromancer and burn spells. They dislike Firedrinker Satyr because they need life to tote themselves to turn four, and their finishers don't really care about a 3 life difference.
The second is a list like mine, (shameless plug).
Mono Red Rampage (2nd Place FNM)
I try to hit the ground running with an aggressive start, but still have a back-up plan with Fanatic of Mogis . Around mid-game I stop trying to swarm an opponent to get 2-3 damage in and instead just burn and hope to draw Fanatic of Mogis . It's less midrange than devotion, and can therefore still blitz an unprepared opponent, but has a better turn four than the next kind of list.
The third kind of mono-red is blazing fast one and two drops. They run all three standard one-drops and run things like Burning-Tree Emissary , Firefist Striker , Gore-House Chainwalker , Ash Zealot , burn spells, and maybe a Boros Reckoner . They traditionally have around 17 lands, which is less than the traditional legacy deck. They plan on just throwing everything out every turn and if it's turn four and their opponent isn't dead, it's game over. They have a fantastic early game but can't handle turn five+. This is the kind of list that runs Firedrinker Satyr - he's just a 2-power one-drop. This list doesn't care about life in the least bit and just care about laying down the hurt. This is where he shines, and this is the only place he shines.
Hope this answers your question :)
December 24, 2013 1:18 a.m.
The same people that wonder why Firedrinker Satyr is good also wonder why Goblin Guide is good. I stopped counting how many people ask those questions.
December 24, 2013 1:20 a.m.
Tradeylouish says... #8
My tally currently stands at 5! It's narrowly behind the Silence question, at 6!
If you want to know why Firedrinker Satyr 's good, read the threads now linked on my userpage.
December 24, 2013 1:25 a.m.
Tradeylouish says... #10
Do you have links to the threads not already on my list?
December 24, 2013 3:02 a.m.
The Doctor says... #11
You've got some of the ones I've seem, but no, I don't have the links. Sorry.
December 24, 2013 3:19 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #12
Jimhawk - Goblin Guide is significantly better since it's condition only occurs if the player has a land do they get a reward. Firedrinker can legitimately get you killed mid-late game. I came against one when running my Gruul deck and just let it sit their. turn 5 I cast Clan Defiance for 10 (Xenagos and Nykthos to give mana) and aimed it at firedrinker to deal a solid 20 for game. Goblin Guide will never cost you the game unless your opponent is playing some insane landfall deck.
thataddkid - The issue with red full on charge seems kind of weak given the current meta. With Devotion generating often ridiculous amounts of mana or putting gods on the field themid and late games are coming out a lot faster than red can just kill. On turn 4 I'm generally swinging with a Kalonian Hydra myself in Simic or just generally beating down my opponent. Red devotion and the other semi-devotion make sense because they're prepared for the mid game that is most likely going to hit the field in the current meta.
Also, when he first released he sold at $8, I know because I sold them all immediately for money since I hated the card even then.
Tradeylouish - I looked through the threads and every single one had the same thing - it's brilliant against control. This I entirely agreed with in my origional post but thatstill doesn't answer why it's in the mainboard. As a sideboard against control I understand it, but playing a card that is a risk and a half in the current meta seems a little silly. With devotion driving the meta at the moment Firedrinker's ability to go aggro is kind of lackluster. I can see why people compare him to Jackal Pup but Jackal Pup was so strong due to other cards not being as good or aggro. The current meta though has white having 1 drop 2/1's, blue having insane devotion to a 3drop 5/5, green having hexproof mana dorks and powerful 5drops that hit turn 3 and black has all amounts of methods to disrupt red deck wins. Tempest only really had Black to worry about when playind JacklePup because black had cards like Sarcomancy (the same kind of concept) and Dark Ritual . In the current block though it has a lot more to compete with. My main question still holds, why does this see play in the mainboard. Against Esper control, sure - side it in and wreck them but in a meta where even mono blue is going aggro successfully Firedrinker just feels like a gamble with the odds heavily against you.
December 24, 2013 4:26 a.m.
Because, in game 1, your deck shouldn't really care about the meta. Unless there's one deck that everybody plays, then you tune your deck to the ideal aggro (for RDW). After game 1, you improve your match by possibly decreasing the power level.
December 24, 2013 6:13 a.m.
Ultimaodin no, you're not missing anything, its a terrible card. I've player against it and it has literally cost my opponent the game before, people just like the R for 2/1 and don't get me wrong, that part is very good but nothing else about that card is useful. You'll hear the argument that aggro doesn't need to care about life which is true to some extent but this guy goes out of his way to kill its controller and it may be just me but any game of mtg I've ever played I've needed to care about my life... don't let em fool you, this card stinks and will never be seen again once out of standard :)
December 24, 2013 6:57 a.m.
The discussion will forever go back and forth - see the other threads for the arguments and counter-arguments, but at the end of the day there are more decks with Firedrinker Satyr (103) Top8-ing events than there are Legion Loyalist (59) so that should tell you something about the card evaluation.
The % disparity becomes even greater when you focus on just higher level events, going to 19 - 9. For instance, there wasn't a single Legion Loyalist at PT Dublin. So you're twice as likely to win all things being equal running Firedrinker Satyr , though it's also easy to see how poorly positioned red aggro is right now.
December 24, 2013 7:45 a.m.
infinitemana says... #16
And as a bonus, it works well with Burning-Tree Emissary if there is nothing else to spend mana on.
December 24, 2013 8:25 a.m.
chillistills says... #17
Red deck wins players do not care about their health - that's all there really is to it.
And I don't see how cackler is better vs esper - he does the same amount of damage by default but with no opportunity to pump. Also esper isn't going to be burning the fire drinker to remove it so it's probably one of the best match ups for it.
December 24, 2013 12:03 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #18
I suppose you could look at it this way-
He drinks fire, pure burning fire, for fun, making him a badass (2/1 body for R that doesn't come in tapped).
However, because of his fire-drinking passion, he burns himself and everyone around him (his damage dealing abilities).
December 24, 2013 12:20 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #19
Panda213 - I'm with you, even when playing red I do need to consider my life. Sure maybe not as much but completely ignoring it is just going to get you killed.
Matsi883 - didn't we just have a number ofpostsin the sztandard forum as well as articles talking about predicting the meta etc... before you even go into gameone you should be taking the meta into account. Jacklepup was good in the past as I mentioned due to the meta. Let's look at some other 2/1 1 drops: Soldier of the Pantheon is also a 2/1 this time in white. Not only is Firedrinker inferior due to the health loss if they trade, the soldier has protection and can gain you life. Black has Tormented Hero as 2/1 1drop (the also have access to Rakdos Cackler) which again does pretty much the same thing but a nice little heroic to help you kill quicker and will most likely cost you less than Firedrinker's pump ability. Also a pump ability that cost 1 life todo1 extra is absurd. Yes tormented hero comes in tapped but your not going to block with Firedrinker after all are you,
chillistills - how often would you use the pump against esper? You'd want to play more creatures to do more potential damage. His pump costs 2 mana and a life to inflict 1 additional life. Rakdos is the same toughness but it doesn't have much of a draw back against any deck so mainboarding it over Firedrinker Satyr is significantly better. He's a great sideboard for Esper but as mainboard Rakdos is the way to go. I fully understand if Firedrinker was a sideboard card but as a mainboard there are just simply better options.
GoldGhost012 from now on I'm going to call him the alcoholic.
smash10101 says... #2
He's a 1-drop that can still be relevant mid-late game due to his fire-breathing ability. You really don't want to draw a Rakdos Cackler on turn 4, but a Firedrinker Satyr is much better.
December 24, 2013 1:03 a.m.