Garruk, Primal Hunter vs Garruk Relentless Flip in Jund
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Posted on Dec. 10, 2012, 3:27 a.m. by toxonic
Im running Garruk Relentless Flip in my current Jund deck Mafia Connections as i find him to be very good at flooding the field as well as providing some removal and being a tutor.
My question is why do i often see Garruk, Primal Hunter in most other jund decks? what makes him so much better than the other one?
But what about the other abilities? Relentless being able to burn for 3 the moment he is played (killing off a first striker or Huntmaster of the Fells Flip etc), the deathtouch wolves, while they can be pinged to death, will kill just about anything without flying. and then later they can be sacrificed to find the specific creature you need in the situation.
I see that the numbers are better in Primal Hunters favor, but i feel that relentless wins on the amount of utility he provides. I could be undervaluing primal hunters card draw though.
December 10, 2012 4 a.m.
Not only does primal hunter work well with thragtusk it grinds out thragtusks like a champion. If you +1 they have to trade their thragtusk for your beast token (obvi not favorable) or not attack (obvi not favorable). The 2/2 creatures produced by relentless are not relevent in all matchups. With the rise of rakdos relentless is better than he was before, but primal hunter is still better at least imo. Running a split is always an option
December 10, 2012 4:15 a.m.
SwiftDeath says... #5
I find they are both useful I use both versions in my junk control deck and I have had no problems with either. I choose to run 2 primal hunters and only one relentless because of the draw advantage and thragtusk wars. so in a deck that doesn't have a lot of consistant or reliable draw engines primal hunter usually fills in the gap and has other options depending on the situation but most times he reads 2GGG: draw five cards. were as most situations with relentless have spelled 3G: fight thragtusk or huntmaster. both ways he dies because the first kills him and the second the wolf kills him buy it is interesting to go turn 4 garruk kill garruk to kill thragtusk into turn 5 thragtusk for value into turn 6 garruk primal hunter and start making 3/3s or draw 5 cards most opponents ive played can't return from a lose of advantage like that.
December 10, 2012 5:07 a.m.
I wpuld ALWAYS suggest Garruk, Primal Hunter if you are playing ramp and good fixing. He is better if you are playing 4x Arbor Elf
December 10, 2012 6:24 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #7
I prefer Garruk, Primal Hunter . He creates 3/3 beasts, offers massive card draw (which is hard if not impossible to get with green), and if you do manage to pop off his ultimate your opponent better have a board wipe ready or they are screwed.
Garruk Relentless Flip is still amazing and all, but he's not always the answer. Someone gave a good example with the Thragtusk . Either swing and lose it or don't swing and watch Garruk get bigger.
December 10, 2012 9:03 a.m.
Arachnarchist says... #8
When comparing planeswalkers (with the exception of JTMS), you cant really say one is Absolutely better than another. You say you're playing Jund, but what kind of deck is it: Control, aggro, midrange? This alone can shift the effectiveness of one planeswalker vs another. Not to mention the metagame and actual decklist can have a huge effect.
December 10, 2012 10:07 a.m.
I would prefer Garruk, Primal Hunter in your deck. Same reasons as what people before have said. It also allows you to get rid of Underworld Connections and its triple green cost shouldn't be a problem with both Arbor Elf and Farseek
December 10, 2012 10:21 a.m.
Some very good points have been made, but at the same time i have had a fair amount of joy with him in my meta, so i think that running both should work the best. I generally pump out a couple of wolves before being able to flip relentless and in my meta the only way they would kill him straight after a flip is with Pillar of Flame , so as long as i killed a creature of theirs then its a 2 for 1 minimum.
The 3/3 tokens would definately help out and Kessig Wolf Run on anything would refill my hand and then some. So because they are both very powerful planeswalkers i might as well run both.
December 10, 2012 10:33 a.m.
I prefer Garruk Relentless Flip - he gets out faster and MUCH easier - I guarantee that every single Jund deck that runs Garruk, Primal Hunter has run into a 'not enough green mana' situation more than once, whereas Relentless comes out so easy.
Also, Relentless acts as removal immediately, and can operate right after a boardwipe, and can tutor for your best creature.
December 10, 2012 11:02 a.m.
If anybody says that 3 Green mana by turn 5 is hard for a Jund deck, that person clearly has no idea that Farseek and Shock-lands exist, nor has ever played a Jund deck this season. I ran Jund for 3 weeks straight with 3 Primal Hunter and NEVER had an issue. Learn statistics and probability.
Garruk, Primal Hunter is stronger is nearly every aspect. Killing a Huntmaster with Garruk Relentless Flip is fun and all, but wouldn't Primal Hunter just be better at containing it anyways? And besides. Relentless dies to the Wolf token on the following turn. Might as well have used Pillar of Flame and not wasted a Planeswalkers or 3 more mana.
And are you really ever going to suicide your own Relentless to kill a Thragtusk ? You paid 4 mana to kill your own Planeswalker and, arguably, not increase your board position at all.
Garruk, Primal Hunter is better in almost every aspect. Both are very good if they can stay out beyond the first few turns, but Primal Hunter has a lot more power the moment he enters the battlefield.
Not to mention, Primal Hunter's Beast tokens trade with Thragtusk and friends. To kill a Thragtusk with Relentless, you'd need 2 Wolf tokens and then both of them die anyways. Or just waste Relentless and give your opponent a free Beast token.
December 10, 2012 1:08 p.m.
Wow, zandl, you get upset easy. I hope to play your magic Jund deck that never has mana issues. Is it on TappedOut? I'd love to learn from your vast knowledge, I'll just playtest it myself and see the secret to never getting colour-screwed. It's funny... my Jund deck has four Farseek and is full of duals, and yet it can still happen that the black-red lands keep coming, and the Farseek doesn't appear. But let me have a look at your build and see for myself.
We probably have different opinions on the Garruk debate because my meta has more than just decks of Thragtusk s, while yours clearly does not.
December 11, 2012 8:45 a.m.
From what i'm reading it seems that the Garruk's are about on par with each other, and it just depends on what you need in a planeswalker and what sort of meta you have as to which one is the best. I understand what zandl is getting at with GGG not being hard to manage, by the time you have Mr. Primal hunter in hand enough green sources should be in play.
That being said i have had the occasional crazy draw with 5 red/black mana on the field and an Arbor Elf and Farseek in hand. These sort of things happen due to the random nature of magic.
December 11, 2012 8:58 a.m.
Actually, zandl has found a formula to defeat randomness, resulting in a 100% guaranteed no-mana-screw every single time. LOL All it takes is a lesson in "statistics and probability", and maybe a magic deckbuild.
December 11, 2012 9:45 a.m.
You don't want to go there Long_Con.
However, zandl, it would good for you to know that people make mistakes and can have different opinions than you and that just because they do, doesn't mean that you have to go about the "if anybody says... Then clearly that person has no idea/never played..." route. It is pretty insulting. Not everyone thinks alike so not everyone will agree on the same thought.
December 11, 2012 10:15 a.m.
Yeah, you're right... I shouldn't let him bait me like that,
December 11, 2012 1:40 p.m.
I'm touched that you like me enough to post about me for 4 straight hours without me even needing to be here.
I wasn't baiting you and I wasn't the one getting upset. If you simply read through this thread again, you'll find that the only person with sand in his/her vagina here is you, Long_Con. You don't have to take every single thing I say as a personal attack, which seems to be the case.
tl;dr - Chill out, bro. No one cares.
December 12, 2012 1:06 p.m.
LOL I can tell this is important to you, chief, so I'm gonna let you have it.
OdBoX says... #2
Draw, you don't have much of it and he can manage 5 cards with a Thragtusk
The power of +1 Relentless will/can die easily, whereas Primal can recover by increasing his loyalty
3/3 vs 2/2 < self explanatory really
December 10, 2012 3:43 a.m.