Gideon, Champion of Standard
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 15, 2014, 2:55 p.m. by Stein_
As the Theros standard war wages on, I always like to try different things, so something I wanna hear from you guys, is Gideon, Champion of Justice . Underplayed, and extremely powerful in my book. Against Elspeth, Sun's Champion good ol' Gideon gains 4 loyalty counters the first time, and even more later. Sure, we have removal for him, if you got it in you hand. When he becomes a creature, he punches, and punches hard. it will make you use a Hero's Downfall sorcery speed to try and kill him, because he's indestructible. And his finale, EXILE ALL OTHER PERMANENTS. Against control, this ability is a bomb just ticking away. I have also found it fun to use Rogue's Passage and Gideon says, thanks! Whattya think?
I have been playing with him in a GW aggro deck, his first turn he is basically a 5/5 for 4mana. Seems good!....
Against control decks, like UW, they have detention sphere, and counter, and charm to knock him back. Here we SB Fade into Antiquity . However, when he keeps coming down especially against elspeth, he gets big fast, thus becoming more of a threat. I play control, and I've seen him almost pop off. Its quite impressive really. Yes, he is pretty easy to remove, but so are other creatures, and most times, the opponent will be worrying about those creatures before Gideon. I definitely like your points too.
January 15, 2014 3:17 p.m.
Against Elspeth, Sun's Champion , he gets hit by D-Sphere, Azorius Charm , and Celestial Flare .
Being Indestructible while he's a creature is decent, too, but that doesn't stop Hero's Downfall .
January 15, 2014 3:42 p.m.
It makes you play the Downfall on your turn. Dsphere will knock him out, but as I mentioned, getting rid of the sphere brings it back. Celestial flare is a rogue card atm. As soon as weenie devotion becomes better, that card will be everywhere. As of now, most people aren't ready for a Gideon to pop on the field. Being a rogue player, is sweet just for that.
January 15, 2014 4:03 p.m.
... You can kill Gideon with Downfall in response to him becoming a creature.
January 15, 2014 4:10 p.m.
Though, I managed to one time attack with 2 Misthollow Griffin s, float 8 mana, pop Gideon from 15, and then cast the 2 Griffins from exile, making them the only permanents on the board.
He's a fun card with a bit of potential, but I don't see him becoming tier-1 anytime soon.
January 15, 2014 4:12 p.m.
If my gal decides to play the ptq this weekend, we shall see! Lol. If Gideon slays, point proven. Otherwise, you got it.
January 15, 2014 5:30 p.m.
Gideon isnt good enough to be played. Hes still easy to kill
January 15, 2014 10:33 p.m.
Anything is easy to kill, and people don't suspect Gideon. Think outside the box peeps! =P
Also, I lost a game because I got no detention sphere, no Downfall, and he hasld flying and double strike hitting for 10, as well as other creatures. He's brutal. Nuff said lol.
January 15, 2014 11:08 p.m.
Anything can kill you if you don't have removal for it...?
January 15, 2014 11:41 p.m.
Exactly. Thus asking opinions on something is kind of useless I suppose.
January 16, 2014 1:27 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #13
PTQ is not the place for experimenting with Gideon, you will probably get beat down quite a bit and not have much fun. FNM is the place to test him out.
January 16, 2014 11:45 a.m.
Fnm is practice. My gf plays the deck and wins, hard. 4-0, 2-2, 4-0. A PTQ you can play whatever you like. Don't be so typical. That's how you lose. Know your deck, play a fuck ton, and win. Gideon will prevail. This will also be streamed so look for it thus weekend!
January 16, 2014 12:28 p.m.
lol
You lose at a PTQ by playing whatever you like.
You're going up against serious grinders who sit and think of the best decks in Standard all day long Just because you "know your deck" doesn't mean you have some sort of an advantage over them.
At FNM, sure; play what you want. At a PTQ, play something that'll win.
January 16, 2014 12:30 p.m.
I think it needs to be said explicitly, PTQ meta is normally not the FNM meta or quality of player. Rogue decks only do well in the hands of accomplished players who know the meta they are facing and design for it. Outside of that they normally do not do that well. Knowing your deck is a good thing, practicing with it is a good thing, but that is only 1/2 of the equation.
January 16, 2014 12:36 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #17
I agree with gufymike. Case in point: People think Bogles is an actual deck, but, in reality, it was just a successful meta counter call on Reid Duke's part because running into a bunch of Jund would've been horrible, but everyone ran UWr... that's NOT normal. All of those things were meta calls and counter calls.
January 16, 2014 12:45 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #18
At a PTQ you should expect 20% MUD, 20% MBD, 20% Esper Control, and the other 40% will be playing varying amounts U/W Control, R/w Devotion, G/r Monsters, and B/W Midrange.
You are building a rouge deck around a card that has a lower power level than most cards in the other decks. Rouge decks like the Naya Control at the start of this standard season are built around high power cards and it was positioned well at the time. Now the format is pretty cut and dry until BNG is out. Play a tier 1 deck or tier 2 ( the other 40%) and hope for good matchups. Don't throw your $25 away.
January 16, 2014 12:51 p.m.
Okay, the deck wins, and it wins alot. I grind quite alot, even by myself sometimes. I am also very aware of the metagame. My deck is very strong, and more and more Gideon keeps winning, against the meta. understand the meta game, plus I proxy the decks to test against them. GW has hella potential atm, and Gideon is actually a fantastic card. Say what you will. Everyone has opinions, when a card works, don't change it.
January 16, 2014 6:01 p.m.
Since you're such a pro, I'll be looking forward to your full deck-list, tournament report, and link to the Top 8 decks so you can prove me wrong.
January 16, 2014 6:15 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #21
So yeah you'll get blown out by Supreme Verdict all day. MBD is will use its early removal, card advantage, and specters to win. MUD is too fast, consistent, and has unlockable finisher. Turn Gideon to a creature and he is bounced. You very susceptible to Cyclonic Rift. G/R monsters runs you over. Boros has reach speed, and chandra.
Where's your card advatage? All these decks have it, it's the single thing consistent in all top decks right now.
Switch to W/B humans and you solve your problem. Xathrid Necromancer makes you get 2 creatures for every 1 you are now. You get removal, card advantage, and good match ups. Drop Ajani if your playing Gideon. I like Ajani more though.
January 16, 2014 6:51 p.m.
Thank you for the input on the deck. However, this deck has been running quite smooth, and very consistent. We had four chronicler in, but he was dead as a top deck, so down to two. I have been playing, as well as my gf who pilots GW Stompy, and she fairs well against boros(both), and supreme verdict decks like I pilot. It all comes down to if we can make it. So far it's looking good, but we will see. Also, I never claimed to be a pro, however I do practice alot against metagame decks. Can't call yourself a pro if you don't make it to pro tour am I right? All I am simply saying is besides the gw shell, Gideon actually works, and works for this deck. I enjoy playing against it, and seeing its potential from across the board. Give him a try =) I even popped him off against boros aggro earlier today, and double strike flying with him for 12. I mean, that's pretty sweet.
January 16, 2014 11:04 p.m.
Personally, if I were to play Gideon, it would be in a Bant Control/Fog deck... you want to stay away from too much removal, so you can get to hid 15 loyalty fast.
Curse of the Swine , Rapid Hybridization and Swan Song remove threats, while letting your opponent keep enough creatures to get your loyalty.
...unfortuantely, all good damage prevention (aside from Fog ) in standard only prevents damage to players or creatures. - Druid's Deliverance - Defend the Hearth - Shielded Passage - Riot Control .
Other direct removal can be thwarted by Simic Charm .
Situationally, there is Pay No Heed for single targets, and Hindervines if they aren't using +1/+1 counters... but with the only reliable prevention being Fog , this strategy probably won't hold together at this point.
January 17, 2014 2:47 p.m.
hiddengibbons says... #24
Gideon might be good as a one of, but in a control deck, Jace, Architect of Thought is probably a better 4 drop planeswalker. Try it out, see what happens. I only discovered why Omenspeaker was bad in UW control by actually playing it and losing. Of course, if something is really a bad idea, it seems like everyone would have an advantage by telling you to go ahead and do it because they'll have an edge. Like, I'm surprised there aren't any pros out there that intentionally give bad advice so they can increase their chances of winning. "Search the City is a great card. You should build a deck around it"
January 18, 2014 1:47 p.m.
@hiddengibbons: Clearly, you've never read Frank Lepore's articles.
January 18, 2014 1:58 p.m.
There are pros that try to deter players. Alot of magic players are like that, not all. I really like playing with him. If the shoe fits, you must wear it. I think that applies here, or I just really need to watch Inglorious Basterds again. =)
January 18, 2014 10:06 p.m.
I caught the flu a couple days ago, so i couldn't attend. I'm quite bummed out about it. thought I'd be better, but i didn't wanna ruin other people's lives with sickness haha.
Servo_Token says... #2
While I believe that he is definitely something that you could build around, I don't think that you're going to see success by sticking him into any old deck like you could with other good planeswalkers. His +1x and his -15 are counter-intuitive. By the time that you get him to the 15, you're either so far dead, or so far ahead that it isn't going to matter anyway; in an aggro matchup at least. In a control match where you want his -15, it's going to take 10 turns to get there due to the lack of creatures, and by that time, the control deck has found a way to take care of him.
It seems that he's really just a 4/4 indestructible creature that can't block, and has the potential to get bigger, and is killed by any removal for planeswalkers (Which is becoming more and more abundant.
That being said though, I still think that he's worth trying out and experimenting with.
January 15, 2014 3:08 p.m.