How does one defeat a UB control deck?
Standard forum
Posted on March 31, 2015, 11:05 p.m. by ohmless
Hi. I have gone 3-1 every Friday night for the last two months and can't get past the hurdle of winning against Dig Through Time control decks to go 4-0. I have mainly a Mardu token deck with dragons. Very creature dense but with ten cards that needed to be sideboarded out with this match up.
I tried to sideboard out anything that was creature control since he had very few but was really just putting back in random stuff(mainly burn spells) since I don't know what to do.
Please help!
B/U control tends to be a slower control deck that in game one at least doesn't like to face a lot of little creatures with different names. This is so they can't Bile Blight your board away. Obviously since you are playing tokens this may be a little hard, but still possible. You are looking to swarm the board but at the same time not over commit. Examples are to cast a Hordeling Outburst and a Raise the Alarm will sitting on the rest of your token spells so if they do wrath the board you can easily repair. After board most creature removal is irrelevant but it is still a good idea to leave in some number of Hero's Downfalls to kill planeswalker.
March 31, 2015 11:24 p.m.
incarceratedGeneticist says... #4
Crackling Doom can be very effective against creature win conditions. Burn them to the face as often as possible and avoid playing big splashy win conditions that are an obvious target for counter and removal - instead play multiple cheap aggressive threats. As an UB control player myself, my biggest fear is early game damage and wasting all my removal and counter on cheap and easily replaced creatures. Sideboarding out all your creature control is the wrong move unless they are mainly using planeswalkers, because if you manage to kill their biggest threats then you just win. Of course, this just leaves you vulnerable to Crux of Fate, but playing around it until you get into the late game when they have the advantage is even worse.
March 31, 2015 11:26 p.m.
Three things are good against control, speed, disruption and protection. Your sideboard plan against control should consist of cards that give you one of those three things. In the mardu colors the first that come to my mind are Thoughtseize and Duress, Gods Willing and Feat of Resistance.
Another thing too... You should have ways of playing an attrition game and recover from wraths. Your best choice right now in your colors is Outpost Siege. Enchantments are U/B's weakness, a lot of them started leaving Perilous Vault out or just playing 1 copy of it.
Taking game 1 always helps... Running Outpost Siege main in combination to two Valorous Stance and two Thoughtseize could really help you take game 1 even with all the dead removal.
March 31, 2015 11:28 p.m.
Um well. Honestly? You're in mardu. Play 4 rabblemasters, 4 thoughtseizes, and 4 duress in the sideboard. Control won't stand a chance.
March 31, 2015 11:39 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #7
Well, it's not as simple as all that, but yes. Those cards are very strong. Especially when you're on the play.
You do have to, well, play your cards right, though.
April 1, 2015 12:45 a.m.
So to beat control, you can basically do one of two things: Go under them, or go over them, and Mardu can do both.
To go under them, you need to be fast, like super fast. Going Foundry Street Denizen into Raise the Alarm into Goblin Rabblemaster is something they'll have a lot of trouble beating on the draw, especially since you (presumably) have some number of Stoke the Flames, Lightning Strikes, Wild Slashes, etc. You just take advantage of the fact their removal will always be a mana disadvantage.
To go over, you need to be playing a bunch of threats that each require an answer. Butcher of the Horde, Stormbreath Dragon, Whip of Erebos, Hammer of Purphoros, Outpost Siege, Palace Siege, Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker. The list goes on.
Both strategies are much better when backed up with discard, so some number of Thoughtseizes, Duresss, and Mardu Charms will be great. You don't need them to win, but it definitely will help. You should be able to judge which way is easiest to twist your deck to with the decklist you're running. The matchup is a hell of a lot better than last standard, so you should have a good shot at it if your sideboard is built well for the matchup.
April 1, 2015 11:30 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #9
Some great cards for Mardu that work well against control:
Crackling Doom = Gets rid of their few creatures that they only have. Which is almost guaranteed to hit one of their win cons.
Valorous Stance = Is great for just protecting a creature from spot removal or mass removal. With the exception of Bile Blight/Drown in Sorrow. It can also get rid of their Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Torrent Elemental, Pearl Lake Ancient (sometimes).
Gods Willing = To help against Bile Blight or some form of spot removal.
Outpost Siege = To refuel when your board is clear (Khans). Or to maximize damage if they haven't swiped your board yet (Dragons).
Banishing Light = Is a great way to deal with their planeswalkers as well as Hero's Downfall. (This is dependent upon if you run a lot of black or you're splashing black, if you're splashing black, Downfall might not be as efficient because you're relying on double black mana, if black is a big part of the deck, Downfall is golden)
Crater's Claws = It is a good finisher that they would never see coming especially if you cannot get through their Silumgar, the Drifting Death or Pearl Lake Ancient.
HASTE CREATURES:
Monastery Swiftspear, Goblin Rabblemaster (not haste but does something the turn it comes out), Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, Stormbreath Dragon, Butcher of the Horde (when you have a sac outlet, such as playing a Raise the Alarm on their end step just before you drop Butcher), Impact Tremors could be a good one along with Purphoros, God of the Forge (every token spell you drop deals damage to them then, so this gives your tokens to do something when you drop them)
The good thing to keep in mind is that some control decks are moving away from Bile Blight main and starting to use Ultimate Price in its place. So keep an eye out Game 1, if you see hardly any to no Bile Blight, they are definitely going to at least bring in Drown in Sorrow and possibly some number of Bile Blight.
April 1, 2015 3:50 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #10
Strategy from Patrick Chapin from Top Level Podcast (also winner of Pro Tour JOU and 2nd(?) at Worlds): Just don't play your cards. They run so many reactive cards that if you just don't play the game, then you'll win.
For me, the best thing is if you can get out a Whip of Erebos, it makes your discards (if you have to) multipurpose. Also, they'll tap out for Pearl Lake Ancient if they draw it, then you just go ham all the way. But honestly, Whip of Erebos is the best way to fight it. If you get it out, if they counter a creature, you whip it, and if they kill it, you made them waste 2 spells. Besides, if you wait them out, they WILL deck themselves faster from all their card draw.
April 1, 2015 5:41 p.m.
malfeischylde says... #11
It depends on what you run. A well timed thoughtseize or duress lets you know whether or not timing allows, and a pearl lake is completely predictable, meaning holding back 2x or 3x removal at instant speed may be both warranted and doable with sultai charm, hero's downfall, ultimate price, utter end, etc.
April 1, 2015 9:01 p.m.
malfeischylde says... #12
Ps, I've topped ub with sultai control and abzan aggro, so there are different strategies and decks that can do it other than a hail Mary rdw or rw aggro Or heroic.
April 1, 2015 9:02 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #13
Part of playing against UB or any draw-go control is the poker game, since you have to respect a wide variety of answers. Having hand disruption, therefore, is extremely powerful to you. Not only do you get to remove their most vital card, but you take away their ability to bluff in the short term. Since it is a short-term advantage, choose your moments when it's a pivotal point in the game.
Otherwise, just always keep in mind that you will rarely win the long game against them since they are built to win the card advantage battle (with both draw spells and wraths). So force them to play their answers before they have a chance to draw more while being mindful of the amount of cards you would lose to a potential wrath.
Also, whenever possible, use their own draw-go nature against them early on by holding up mana during your turn (thus forcing them to choose between wasting a turn or using removal on a subpar target) and following up with an instant on their end step and value-producing threats on your following turn. They will be forced to give up tempo or card quality; these small advantages can force bigger ones down the road and eventually lead to a win.
April 2, 2015 9:24 p.m.
incarceratedGeneticist says... #15
If you hold up removal and kill all their wincons, you've won because they will either resign or proceed to deck themselves. Playing cheap haste creatures and burn to kill them quickly is your other option. Despise is lethal if you hit a win condition, and even if you don't you still get to look at their hand. Whip of Erebos is valuable if it resolves but is susceptible to most counter.
April 9, 2015 5:34 p.m.
incarceratedGeneticist says... #16
Purphoros, God of the Forge is surprisingly good, getting damage out of creatures even if they immediately kill them. It's very hard to remove once it resolves and if you can make it a creature that's even better. Mind Rot is also quite good because every card in their hand is essential. U/B Control hates that card.
April 18, 2015 4:51 p.m.
alanwescoat says... #17
Since you are playing Mardu tokens, have a playset of Secure the Wastes between your deck and sideboard. Drop enough pressure to force your opponent to tap out and sweep as soon as possible, but hold one Secure the Wastes. As soon as your opponent taps out, at the end of your opponent's turn, play Secure the Wastes for everything you can muster. After that, hold back a burn spell to kill whatever token is targeted by Bile Blight. The success of UB control is due to the success of the various midrange decks. Accordingly, the midrange will shrink, and fast aggro will increase until the UB control gets hated out, after which, midrange will return and hate out the fast aggro...lol...and so on...
April 19, 2015 8:58 a.m.
I also play mardu, but I play a control build. My success when I play against U/B control (Btw I have gone 5-0 against UB) is to grind them out. I wait with my hand with several kill spells to slaughter anything they throw at me, put up a few bait cards such as Goblin Rabblemaster, and direct burn them. I am running hand disruption and discard spells as a major part in my deck.
April 19, 2015 2:07 p.m.
Kk. OP here. I made a prototype deck named 19-04-15-ub-hate if anyone wants to also critique. Thanks for the help so far.
JakeHarlow says... #2
Don't over-commit to the board. Attack in with a couple of early creatures that are insignificant, like 1/1 tokens. Don't play anything else but lands and/or burn to the face. Do this (attacking with your solitary early creature or two and applying direct damage when possible) until they are forced to remove your little guys because of all the damage they're being allowed to do. Run Duress, and try to keep the Drown in Sorrows and Crux of Fates out of their hand. When they use removal, put in a bunch of your threats and try to overwhelm them.
I play Temur midrange and it wrecks UB control. I've never lost to it. I use a similar stategy of conserving my threats. I instead play mana dorks, Elvish Mystic and Rattleclaw Mystic, and just use them for beats. When the opponent tires of taking damage from them, I flash in Surrak Dragonclaw or Boon Satyr. Usually I have a Stubborn Denial on hand to stymie further attempts at removal. If I stick a Savage Knuckleblade, they can't really kill him if I have enough mana.
Since you're doing Mardu, it will be harder, but remember that conservative play is your friend along with Duress. Be aggressive with what few creatures you do play early. But give them the least value out of their removal spells as possible. If you force them to spend a card on two 1/1s, you're doing well. Try to Duress their Digs too. It takes a while to get used to and it is a different play style to defeat control, but it can be done with relatively minimal fuss. Practice these concepts and use your resources more effectively than them, and deny them their card advantage plays. You'll win.
March 31, 2015 11:18 p.m.