How to correctly play Thalia's Lieutenant?
Standard forum
Posted on April 5, 2016, 11:58 a.m. by Korombos
I've been running practice hands on a white weenie deck I might want to build when soi drops, and its keystone is Thalia's Lieutenant. If I played a 2/1 human on turn 1, and I have the Lt. and 2 other options in my hand, say a 2/2 for 2 or another 2/1 for 1 (both humans), should I save the Lt. for turn 3 or 4, or play it right away on turn 2?
I'd say it depends on if you're trying to go wide or go tall. Put Lieutenant in early and it'll get big but be a definite target for removal. Put it in later and it's an anthem to help survive Languish, Flaying Tendrils, or the like. In most cases I think the later drop is better rather than putting your eggs in fewer baskets.
April 5, 2016 12:04 p.m.
You're going to more consistently get value out of Thalia's Lieutenant if you play it last or as the buff you need to swing lethal.
Unless it's one of the only good creatures you can jam down on turn 2, play your other things first. Good rule of thumb is to just work your way up the mana curve, unless the situation demands otherwise.
April 5, 2016 12:15 p.m.
After testing white weeny the best 2 drop to use with the lieutenant is Anafenza. Seems so weird but it works....
- 2 Kytheon + 4 Dragon warriors
- 4 Consuls lietenant + 2 Anafenza + 4 THalias lietenant + 4 declaration in stone + 2 Captains claws + 4 ANgelic Gift + 2 Hallowed Moonlight
- 4 Oath of Gideon + 4 Stasis Snare
- 4 Gideon
- 2 Avacyn
Enjoy 4/5-0'ing your FNM
April 5, 2016 1:10 p.m.
Lord_Grimm says... #6
If a Thalia's Lieutenant is already in play, and you cast a second one do both first abilities trigger for each? I mean 'Thalia's lieutenant' entered and the one on the board's first ability states triggers when Thalia's lieutenant enters (which it just did) so wouldn't both the one entering AND the existing one's 1st ability trigger? I understand the second ability wouldn't double trigger upon the second lieutenant entering because it states 'other'.
May 26, 2016 1 p.m.
That's a really good question that I am curious about as well. Commenting for notification if answered.
May 26, 2016 3:06 p.m.
GreenYawgmoth says... #10
To answer it here, Both effects trigger once: the TL on the board triggers her "get a +1/+1 counter" effect, the TL coming in triggers her ETB effect. You do NOT get 2 triggers of each effect.
As a general rule, when a card refers to itself by name it means "this particular instance of this card", not all instances of that card.
May 27, 2016 2:35 p.m.
VLombardi62 says... #11
If two are played together do they come in with two counters each?
July 15, 2016 5:10 p.m.
Yes VLombardi62.
When you have more than one creature enter the battlefield at once they are literally entering at the same time. All triggered abilities that would be caused by those creatures entering the battlefield are held until all creatures have entered the battlefield, that is to say, they all trigger at once. The controller of multiple triggered abilities at once assigns the order in which they resolve on the stack.
Since they are both the same ability, the order is rather irrelevant, but that's the science to it.
So if you resolve a Collected Company that lands two Thalia's Lieutenants, they will both enter the battlefield as CoCo resolves. Then you have four triggered abilities to assign to the stack in whichever order you want (which in this case is irrelelvant). Both abilities will have triggered for each Lieutenant. The first one for themselves and the second one for recognizing the other entering the battlefield.
July 15, 2016 5:19 p.m.
VLombardi62 says... #13
I don't run CC.
If I tap four and play both TL do they get the double counters?
July 15, 2016 5:26 p.m.
No. They wouldn't be entering at the same time.
Tap four lands. Four mana in pool.
Cast TL1. TL1 is on the stack, waiting to resolve. You cannot cast another creature at this time. A spell is on the stack, waiting to resolve, and the only responses either player can make is with instants or activated abilities (or creatures with Flash which are basically instant).
No responses to TL1. TL1 resolves and enters the battlefield. TL1 etb ability triggers. He puts a counter on each OTHER human.
The stack is clear now and you have priority. You use your remaining two mana to cast TL2. The same thing happens. Stack. No response. Resolve.
TL2 etb triggers. TL1 gets a +1/+1 counter from TL2's first ability. TL1 gets a +1/+1 counter from TL1's second ability, recognizing that TL2, which is another human, entered.
TL/DR: Playing two TL's one after the other doesn't count as casting both at once as one will enter the battlefield by itself and the other one will enter independently after. You would end up with a 3/3 TL1 (two counters) and a 1/1 TL2.
July 15, 2016 5:41 p.m. Edited.
VLombardi62 says... #15
Ok, thanks. So same goes for playing a TL along with another human?
July 15, 2016 5:49 p.m.
Yeah. Unless they're being forced into play simultaneously by another spell you can't just make two things happen at once by forcing them onto the stack at the same time.
MTG is very sequential, and your opponent gets a chance to respond to just about everything you do/that happens, the only exceptions being morphing creatures and activating mana abilities of lands and mana dorks.
It sounds like you need to ask around about what the stack is and how it works. Alternatively, if you're tech savvy, there's a free java application called "XMage" that you can download and run. It allows you to build and test decks for all formats unrestricted online, and play against other players across the globe, again, totally free. It also visualizes the stack for you as you play so you can see all the spells and abilities as they resolve on the stack.
Regardless of how you do it, you should invest some time in learning the stack and how it affects the game. It will help you immensely as a player.
Azure124 says... #2
you play the other 2 drop first most the time or you play the 1 drop, it depends on the matchup and what removal spell you are playing around
April 5, 2016 12:01 p.m.