I would like to discuss Orzhov..
Standard forum
Posted on April 18, 2013, 10:39 a.m. by 8vomit
I built an Orzhov extort deck, and got a lot of negative feedback. Everyone is telling me that it will fall at FNM and extort is kind of a weak mechanic in standard. I haven't taken this deck to FNM yet because I don't have any godless shrines. Ive just been playing with my other MTG buddies, but it's been whooping. No one that I play with has beaten it yet, or even come close. I don't think extort is weak at all, I think its underestimated. I think its comparable to infect, in the sense that it its a drastically different way to win, and its very hard to counteract. I am really hoping to see more good orzhov in dragon's maze (i've seen the spoilers), like more enchantments with extort.
Most players will sideboard Witchbane Orb and Skullcrack (latter if playing red) to negate the effects. This is why it's weak mostly, it is also too slow. I've seen extort do great things in limited play and edh/commander, It is a better mechanic for multiplayer and/or commander/edh games, where you can extort for a bunch of life. Not a lot in standard constructed, where aggro just rules. It's hard to extort to a win, if by turn 5, with Blind Obedience in play, turn 4 if not, you're dead. Against control, you don't negate the card advantage, or the tricks/combos or removal it provides or it's own use of extort mechanics.
April 18, 2013 10:56 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #4
I have a friend who made a kind of aggro/extort..... Abuse Vampire Nighthawk deck thing... I don't think he has the list on here, but he got third at our fnm. Maybe CitizenD will make a visit and share it with us.
April 18, 2013 10:59 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #5
If you link us the deck, we might be able to better ascertain how well it will do.
April 18, 2013 10:59 a.m.
Pyrokineticrage says... #6
If you are going to Run extort make sure to have a play set of Bump in the Night and maybe splash red. My Girlfriend Runs an Orzhov +Red deck with Guttersnipe , Thrull Parasite , Blind Obedience , Bump in the Night , Skullcrack , and Boros Charm
April 18, 2013 11:07 a.m.
It might just be that your friends aren't running truly competitive decks. I mean, I played standard for a year a won a couple times, but I was using a trashy G/W humans deck. My FNM is pretty casual though, and most of the good players draft anyway.
A lot of the players here play in FNMs of upwards of 50 attendees, entry fees, and competitive players trying to bust onto the Grand Prix. Pros will say extort can't make it - pros are usually right, given that they win. And believe me, they don't screw around - they playtest like crazy.
Extort is also problematic, because it relies mostly on creatures in a format full of Supreme Verdict and friends. Also, it's slow as molasses. Infect isn't exactly comparable, because it actually tried to close games by the midgame.
April 18, 2013 11:15 a.m.
@ gufymike: Skullcrack is definitely a bastard, my friend runs a Gruul deck with 4, and it tends t0 slow me down for a turn, but the opponent can still lose life from extort which can be crippling.
@ Pyrokineticrage: I was running the deck with red in it before I just made it Orzhov. But I wanted to keep the extort theme, and I felt like red just slowed that down. Also, you really can't run skullcrack with extort, because they counteract eachother. I tried doing that too when there was red in the deck, and quickly realized that I was preventing myself from gaining mucho life.
Here is the deck: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/irrefutable-extortion-simulation/
April 18, 2013 11:21 a.m.
Okay, let me just confirm that I have the rules of extort correct. For each 1 mana you pay, it triggers for each permanent with extort you control, and you may pay additional mana to stack extort. That is my understanding of how it works.
April 18, 2013 11:33 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #10
I decided to not be lazy and check if my friend had his winning list.
He did. Here it is.
Orzhovarox (or Nefarhozov)
April 18, 2013 11:34 a.m.
You can not pay more than one mana per trigger.
"Whenever you cast a spell, the extort abilities of permanents you control will trigger. As the trigger resolves, you'll be given the chance to pay or . (All extort cards, regardless of color, let you pay either color.) If you decide not to pay, nothing happens. But if you do have a spare mana to pay, each of your opponents will lose 1 life, and you'll gain that much life. Each trigger lets you pay up to one mana; you can't pump more mana into it."
April 18, 2013 11:36 a.m.
Thank you gufymike for clearing that up for me, better I find out here than in a competitive game. Im wicked bummed now though, The ability to stack was key, otherwise the life gain is insignificant. That sucks..
April 18, 2013 12:10 p.m.
Extort is a VALUE mechanic, not a BUILD-AROUND mechanic. To construct your deck otherwise is to invite failure to your doorstep.
April 18, 2013 2:19 p.m.
SwiftDeath says... #14
@vampirelazarus Im sorry but i have no clue how he could've made top 8 with that deck. it is horribly inconsistent and lacking of any significant removal and with all the decks that I see in my meta my control/reanimater deck sometimes doesn't even make top 8. congratulations to your friend for making though.
April 18, 2013 3:42 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #15
I believe that it just surprised people. It kinda snuck up on them, I guess.
Also, of all the people that go to my FNM, only a few are actually competitive.
April 18, 2013 3:51 p.m.
One of my buddies built an Orzhov deck and made top 8 with it, but it didn't revolve around Extort. It was this crazy reanimator-type deck, similar to Living Death a decade ago.
Here's the shell if you're interested:
4x Bloodthrone Vampire 4x Blood Artist 4x Cartel Aristocrat 4x Thrull Parasite 4x Lingering Souls 4x Geralf's Messenger 4x Immortal Servitude 2x Obzedat, Ghost Council 4x Isolated Chapel 4x Godless Shrine
The deck basically drops in a ton of creatures, sacrificing them to Blood Artist or Cartel Aristocrat to trigger Blood Artist . Then, it recycles all of them using Immortal Servitude . Thrull Parasite does hilarious things with Geralf's Messenger . He could pay the 1 life no problem because of extort.
Blind Obedience , Knight of Glory , and Knight of Infamy were in his sideboard, if I remember right.
April 18, 2013 6:46 p.m.
LeadKillgore says... #17
I am of the opinion that extort can be a very powerful ability if used in a more control-y deck. Blind Obedience , Crypt Ghast , and some spells with x in the casting cost, combined with a few big creatures, Griselbrand for example, and lots of kill spells, you will have a good advantage over lots of creature based decks.
April 18, 2013 6:57 p.m.
LeadKillgore says... #18
Oh, and I've been owning at drafts playing orzov extort recently, don't know if I'm the only one, but that shit is awesome in that format. Bats, devour flesh, knight of obligation, t'sall you need!
April 18, 2013 7:01 p.m.
My Orzhovarox (the one VampireLazarus mentioned) really ran as an aggro exalted deck with a splash of extort. Exalted is what won me matches. I had a Gideon and a Sorin in it, as well, and they were nice, even won me games at times. Toss in Boros Mastiff and run your low drop creatures with some cheap removal (Tragic Slip), and you might find yourself placing. I don't look at solid guild decks anymore, though, certainly not for FNM. I've since disassembled it and will likely make a straight exalted deck for casual play. Orzhov is great for sealed/draft, though.
vila_a23 says... #2
extort is bad in standard though. You take the deck to fnm and will be the victim of countless losses to competitive players. For starters, extort is to slow. The one life loss is very insignificant in a field full of Thragtusk s and Sphinx's Revelation . Even the 2 life swing that Obzedat, Ghost Council offers is still awkward when your opponent plays one of those two spells. Extort is to slow against aggro because they can often have you dead on board by turn 4. that isn't even taking into consideration the nut hands that they are capable of. If your fnm is anything like mine (we use fnm as practice formlarger events like scg opens and ptqs) then i would suggest dropping extort if your goal is to win.
April 18, 2013 10:51 a.m.