Is tears of valakut a playable choice?
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Posted on May 10, 2016, 7:38 p.m. by Ej1997
I need some ways in red to get by the Avacyn flip and this seems as good an option as any and hits multiple other prevalent fliers and is only 2 mana and uncounterable.
Does anyone else see it as playable or am I just crazy
JANKYARD_DOG says... #3
If you're worried about counters, sure, otherwise just go with Lightning Axe.
May 10, 2016 7:46 p.m.
With Avacyn's flash ability, the indestructible usually comes at instant speed. Making Burn from Within irrelevant because it's a sorcery. On your turn their creatures will no longer be indestructible and requires a 6 mana investment to kill a flipped Avacyn.
I actually run Tears of Valakut in my sideboard because there are a couple Esper Dragon players at my LGS and the can't be countered clause is relevant for me. Also, it's a good option against the weenie decks that are still relying on Avacyn as their finisher. It can hit Avacyn in response to her indestructible trigger when she enters and it can hit a flipped avacyn or an Archangel of Tithes.
Lightning Axe is another decent option. Like tears, it does 5 damage, but it can also hit non-fliers. The drawback is obviously the need to discard a card with it, or pay 6 mana.
Whether you run Axe or Tears, will depend on a couple of things. Are we talking about mainboard or sideboard options? Can you afford to discard to axe? Is your deck built for the lategame so you can pay full price for a top decked Lightning Axe. Tears is too narrow to really be mainboarded, but as a sideboard option for specific problems the 2 mana can be cheaper to pay than the card disadvantage created by discarding to Axe. Also, you have no deck linked, but in an aggressive red deck creating card disadvantage for yourself can be too steep of a price to pay in a deck that can't really generate any card advantage of it's own.
So it's obviously up to you which option you choose. I would say as a mainboard option Lightning Axe would be the better option, especially if your deck can afford it. As a sideboard option just for specific problems then I say Tears of Valakut is the better option.I just feel like if it's coming out of the sideboard, then it's coming in for a specific situation and you don't want to create any card disadvantage for yourself in games 2 or 3 unless your deck is built to take advantage of it (graveyard shenanigans.... madness... etc.).
May 10, 2016 9:52 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #5
Depends on the color of your deck. Because numerous things can answer Avacyn. Grasp of Darkness before she flips. Ultimate Price before and after she flips takes care of her. Rending Volley takes care of her before she flips. Tears of Valakut is mainly a good option against Sigarda, Heron's Grace and Archangel of Tithes. As far as Avacyn is concerned, it's all about timing my friend. If an opponent leaves 5 mana open and they're playing white, it's almost a given then have Avacyn. So leave mana open to deal with her, or at least bluff the fact. It can persuade a player from playing her if they see double black open or even some red open (post board). They might call your bluff, but if you don't have it, you don't have it. It's part of the game.
May 10, 2016 10:02 p.m. Edited.
Rakdos Eldrazi aggroHere's the deck I'm looking to add it into since I'm debating at running 2 of that and 2 roast. I'm already running 3 grasp of darkness that might be bumped up to 4. I have 7 slots for removal spells right now and I'm debating what to out into to those slots.
Though thank you guys for your advice I'm playing my first FNM in awhile and I wanted to try to be prepared
May 10, 2016 10:11 p.m.
FalkenbergRath says... #7
abenz419: the flash effect on Archangel Avacyn Flip is what makes Burn from Within pertinent during a 2nd main phase after she was played as a combat trick during your combat. You can also get away with playing it for 2 or 3 cmc if you have other removal since the main benefit is to remove indestructible for the rest of your turn. It's a solid sideboard card in my experience (in an RDW).
May 10, 2016 11 p.m.
@Ej1997 I still think it's up to you. After seeing your deck for me it's tough to say. With 22 lands and being aggressive, something went wrong if your hard casting Lightning Axe. Without playing the deck some I can't say how often you really have something to pitch when you cast it. You could possibly pitch some creatures that won't be effective on the current board state, but it seems like having a critical mass of creatures would be more important since everything kind of has synergy with everything else. Tears of Valakut is definitely a solid option, but the restriction of only flyers is relevant. Like I said, locally I know I have a couple of dragon control decks I have to be prepared for. So It's extremely relevant in those matches and also relevant in other matchups featuring Avacyn or Archangel of Tithes. If avacyn is the only thing your worried about, other options may be better. Rending Volley like he mentioned is a solid option. It cost 1, can hit fliers and on the ground, and still has the can't be countered clause is that's relevant. It is limited to only white or blue creatures, but in most places that's a large part of the meta and when dealing with Avacyn you just have to be prepared and know about timing, like UpperDeckerTaco said. It does have the downside of not hitting Archangel of Tithes or Dragonlord Silumgar, but that just makes it a meta call (if you don't see those cards then it's a non-issue). Ultimate Price is also another really good option. Extremely relevant against pretty much any deck so it provides more utility to your sideboard, but there are a few relevant multicolor creatures around as well. This could be a mainboard option, adding it to the combination of Roast and Grasp of Darkness that you already run will answer pretty much anything you'll see. The trick would be finding the right numbers of each to run. I don't know if that really helps you decide, but at least your aware most of the options available to you and with actual knowledge of playing the deck can make a better informed decision.
@FalkenbergRath Still though, with Tears of Valakut or Lightning Axe you can respond to the trigger and kill her before she can block any of your creatures. Why let her enter the battlefield and stay providing maximum value. If you have the mana in your second main to play Burn from Within (even for 2 or 3) then it was obviously available during combat when you could have easily cast either Tears or Axe.
The only thing I'd say Burn from Within has over the other 2 is that it can go to a players face. But a Fireball isn't really what RDW wants to bring in. That's designed for the late game in a grindy match-up. If anything RDW is looking to bring in things that improve consistency and helps them win their race in that match-up when they do bring anything out of the sideboard.
FalkenbergRath says... #2
In red I prefer Burn from Within since it bypasses indestructible, but I have Tears of Valakut in my SB for sure.
May 10, 2016 7:44 p.m.