Jund Monsters? vs R/G Monsters? Convince me please!
Standard forum
Posted on March 6, 2014, 12:19 a.m. by Prehstun
The amount of arguments I've heard from both sides are driving me mad!!! Each side seems to have its perks and I just don't know where I'm going. I've played Jund before and every color combo in between and I've finally decided to go Monsters. People tell me 3 color decks are just to inconsistent in standard at the moment, ok fair enough but others find the "splashing black" to be a freebie in this case. I just want a good argument or "debate" for each side, I can't decide where I wanna go and I need convincing. Blacks removal suite seems to make the deck more viable for me personally, but consistency, consistency, consistency, is all I ever hear. HELP ME ,-,
trentfaris242 says... #3
While I think both are good decks, I think Jund Monsters is a little harder to pull off simply because it tries to have the best of both worlds and can fall short if mana isn't there. I remember watching SCG Atlanta and hearing Cedric Phillips say that in his opinion GR was better than splashing black simply for the consistent mana base.
That said, what happens in the GR vs GR mirror, then? I recommend side boarding a Bow of Nylea .
March 6, 2014 1:10 a.m.
Darkness1835 says... #4
While there are lots of issues with mana base in the debate between G/R and Jund, keep in mind a lot of key players for Jund Midrange make fixing very easy. You have Deathrite Shaman , which should be an automatic if you're running any version of G/B/x, and Sylvan Caryatid to stop aggro decks from getting too much damage in early game, both of which can support a colorful mana curve.
March 6, 2014 2:14 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #5
Black opens up Abrupt Decay
. With shocks, scry's, and DRS 3 colors are nothing.
March 6, 2014 2:35 a.m.
Stygian333 says... #6
The only problem I have with the GR Monsters vs Jund argument, is that they are practically equivocal to the GR Monsters mirror. Being on the play is a huge difference, but honestly, the first player to 1. Shoot down your Elvish Mystic or 2. leverage a big threat (like Polukranos, World Eater ) usually wins. The sad part for Jund is that sometimes it just doesn't get to a point where having removal or other cool black cards matter. If your opponent is winning, Dreadbore will only stall your death, not prevent it likely. And when Jund or Monsters wins, its because they landed a turn 3 Polukranos, World Eater or some other 4 drop and / or killed your mana dork. Almost always, the creature based mirror is determined in the first 1-3 turns of the game. Beyond that it degenerates into a "who draws better" contest. Also, things like missing a land drop- it no longer matters if you're playing Jund or GR Monsters, you just loose this match. Basically Jund is forced to push the game out past those opening turns to reap the advantage of its complicated mana base and black cards. Monsters just wants to close the game out fast. To compete, Jund has to do the same, which weakens that farther off end game, which in turn makes GR Monsters more streamlined at accomplishing the early beatdown, and basically invalidating the removal specifically for Monsters.
March 6, 2014 7:34 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #7
I agree with this guy above me. But I think GR has better matchups against other decks.
Also, what would be taken out of the GR deck to add in Deathrite Shaman ? There's not a slot that you can remove without significantly hurting the deck, and you're only doing it for mana.
March 6, 2014 10:21 a.m.
Darkness1835 says... #8
If you're thinking about adding Deathrite Shaman to a GR deck, stop that. You don't need his mana ability, and you cant use his "lose 2 life" ability, and there are better ways to gain life (like Scavenging Ooze and Courser of Kruphix . With GR, your 1 slots should be Elvish Mystic or Experiment One .
March 6, 2014 11:51 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #9
Why would you use Jund Monsters...
When you can rock Jund Blitz:
Revel In The Power Of A Jund Blitzkrieg.
Jund has better top decks than GR Munsters. Oh look everyone i drew a Arbor Colossus , Putrefy it,
March 7, 2014 7:16 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #10
It is really a meta call. Jund is better against MBD and MUD because of having access to relevant removal. G/R is better against control and other midrange decks. Jund has more versatillity and G/R has more consistency.
FYI guys Deathrite Shaman doesn't fit into any Monsters deck. He doesn't ramp and has no other relevant abilities to the deck. Elvish Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid are the dorks you want to be running.
March 7, 2014 8:44 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #11
Well put, Rasta_Viking29. I'd say that sums it up.
March 7, 2014 9:06 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #12
It's definitely a question of flexibility v consistency. But what does Black really bring to the table? Hard removal is nice, but between Domri Rade , Polukranos, World Eater , Mizzium Mortars , Blood , and other Fight mechanics, GR can handle itself pretty well. Golgari Charm is one card I can think of that brings a new element since GR has no answer to Supreme Verdict . And there are hand disruption options like Thoughtseize , Duress , and Rakdos's Return . Still, I'm not sure that's enough to justify slowing the deck down and reducing its consistency. Jund can still be a good deck, but by the time you're done tweaking it, it will probably look very different from a typical Monsters deck.
March 9, 2014 8:45 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #13
I think the real problem with a lot of 3 color decks is that the current meta is just too fast for them. I wouldn't even call them slow (although I already have). But mono-colored decks are running rampant right now, so anything over 2 colors is fairing quite poorly :/
March 9, 2014 9:03 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #14
Black brings Reaper of the Wilds , that is what you really want to splash black for. The give DT and Hexproof are extremely useful and the scry each time a creature dies works so well in combination with Domri and Scavanging Ooze. Golgari Charm universal regen is fantastic. Dreadbore is another good one since it helps combat the bant Super friends deck. It all depends on your meta. I'm playing Irindu at the moment so hey.
BorosPlayer says... #2
I think having a Jund monster deck is tough in standard with only shocklands and temples (guildgates aren't worth mentioning). I tried it myself and found Gruul is quite good and removal can come from Polukranos, World Eater and Fall of the Hammer , with the latter being a pretty underrated card, especially since it can effectively kill anything as long as you have any beater out. Burn also covers smaller creatures.
March 6, 2014 12:46 a.m.