Kiora thoughts
Standard forum
Posted on March 17, 2014, 9:46 a.m. by harrydemon117
For those of you that have used Kiora, the Crashing Wave in tournament play, what has been your take on her? Is she strong vs certain matchups but week to others?
harrydemon117 says... #3
I agree she's not as good against Gruul, but only because of the Haste creatures like Stormbreath Dragon or if a Xenagos, God of Revels resolves and is in play.
Against Monoblue and Monoblack she can lock down ANYTHING and allow you to use your removal on the other creatures they decide to play.
I haven't gotten to test her against Esper- U/W control decks yet but usually their one weakness is against planeswalkers right?
March 17, 2014 10:04 a.m.
@harrydemon117, They both have Detention Sphere and Esper has an extra Hero's Downfall . Then post-sideboard Pithing Needle
March 17, 2014 10:12 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #5
Right, but I have several creatures/'walkers to play AND I have Abrupt Decay and even Golgari Charm out of the sideboard for the Detention Sphere s.
March 17, 2014 10:16 a.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #6
When the Gatecrash block rotates out, I think she'll see a lot more play...
Btw I can't stand Gatecrash anymore, I'm so happy it's finally rotating out
March 17, 2014 10:35 a.m.
why did the azorius player not use the sphinx's ability to gain hexproof in response to the kiora +1 ability? no cards in hand? seems odd for azorius control.
March 17, 2014 10:36 a.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #8
shuflw as I recall, he had no hand when Kiora was dropped and then drew a Negate , which then he decided to HOLD it because I don't know.
Then he started drawing lands and dropping them for some stupid reason... He was a bad player, a shame, though, his deck was pretty legit.
March 17, 2014 10:41 a.m.
lol, that makes sense. sounds like you're right that kiora was only relevant in that exact situation.
i agree that now probably isn't her time, but she still has a year and a half to find more cards to make her relevant in standard.
March 17, 2014 10:43 a.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #10
Yeah... After the rotation, Standard won't be as creature-based as it is right now...We'll see a lot more creatures in G/U decks and a lot less creatures in G/R, which will turn into a big-ass buffed creature trying to murder you...
Those are my thoughts... G/U midrange control running Kiora and G/U/B based on 1 huge-ass creature pumped and black/blue giving all the control it needs to get pumped.
March 17, 2014 11 a.m.
March 17, 2014 11:46 a.m.
I use a playset of Kiora in my current standard build and I'm going to have to disagree with you all. I think people are looking too much at her alone and not her as a component of a deck. She can be played as early as T3 in the current standard. Playing her -1 at this point can be incredibly relevant in a deck meant to take advantage of it (e.g. ramp decks like my own). She is a planeswalker that has the ability to protect her self from one creature a turn much like Garruk, Primal Hunter is able to do. And she must only be down for 3 turns to get to ultimate range, upon which you generally will win the game through sheer force.
What are her downsides? She does die to Detention Sphere and Hero's Downfall . Absolutely so. But in a deck focusing on playing out gigantic threats on a normal basis, it's sometimes nice to play her, use her minus ability for value, and then soak up a key removal spell for the game. No problems there at all. I rarely ever even attempt to plus Kiora unless the boardstate makes it preferable, and I rarely ever get her to ultimate unless it's against decks like control or MBD that play small numbers of threats at a time. And that's perfectly fine because she's not the only threat in my deck -- she's one of many win cons.
All in all, I think the problem isn't Kiora. I think it's that people aren't using her for what she wants to be used for. She ramps, she provides tempo advantage, and she is in Simic colors. And that's why I think she fits perfectly into a ramp/tempo shell of simic or bant.
March 17, 2014 12:26 p.m.
Kiora against Gruul Monsters is hard, when she becomes overwhelmed by the number of creatures but against just 1 or 2 creatures in Voltron decks she's effective. also hard to keep up with her ultimate - 9/9 Kraken after every end step of the opponent
March 17, 2014 12:45 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #15
FINALLY! Thanks Spootyone somebody agrees with me :)
I use her in a BUG midrange build that features several 'walkers AND creatures so there is NO WAY that an opponent has an answer every single time. Eventually they will run out of answers and something will start to chip away at their life points.
Monoblack really has ONE answer and that is Hero's Downfall . They have no flash creatures to surprise you with, and you can lock down a Mutavault with her +1.
I will usually use her +1 also as it helps me generate more mana for AEtherling , giving Reaper of the Wilds hexproof, or granting monstrous to Polukranos, World Eater . IF the board state is stable enough for me to attempt to use her as the win con, it's only a few turns and POOF! 9/9
I think she is still bad vs Gruul as they have plenty of ways to gain haste so you would be tricked into using her +1 only to lose her on the next turn. I was trying to find out if there are any other "bad" matchups for her, but so far it's only been to flash creatures and decks that can grant a lot of haste
March 17, 2014 12:48 p.m.
From experience, her worst matchups are decks like G/R monsters UNLESS you get out creatures that can block theirs. Arbor Colossus and Sylvan Primordial do this for me and given their ability to avoid the removal that deck has, things can get quite nice to drop a kiora. Ghor-Clan Rampager still sucks but...well, that's one reason why I personally have Simic Charm and Cyclonic Rift as a back up plan. That's even better. You just have to learn how to read what the opponent has and make use of her as best you can. Even if you drop her and use her -1, she likely will be soaking up 4+ damage for you and that is something that is worth playing her I feel.
Weenie decks are decks like Rakdos aggro are probably worse for her than G/R. They swarm the field and just alpha into her to blow her up. That, or they have a Hero's Downfall
in the waiting (not that her taking out one of those bothers me too much). In this case she is simply a 4 mana Explore
with the ability to soak up some damage. When you're simply trying to live for 4-5 turns that can still be invaluable.
The worst situation I've come to with kiora is the opponent having a buffed Soldier of the Pantheon and me having a dead kiora in hand. But after a single wrath from Elspeth, Sun's Champion she was able to come down and help me get the victory.
March 17, 2014 12:58 p.m.
I believe there are more than enough cards with which to play next to Kiora, the Crashing Wave to make her work right now, as there are 6 of a maximum 8 sets legal currently, we get JIN soon, followed by core set M15.
If she isn't ready yet, she almost assuredly will be by the time Summer rolls around as we'll have 8 sets with which to build from.
Then Rotation occurs which will leave us with Theros Block and M15, 4 set's, half of which are still unreleased, until At the Least Journey into Nyx, the third set of Theros Block comes out, we can't do much but speculate as to what the post roto meta will consist of, I'm guessing some sweet Theros Block Decks.
...JIN...M15.
March 17, 2014 1:42 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #18
Hmmm interesting point Spootyone.
I haven't tested her much against "white weenie" or other "swarm" decks yet so I will have to keep that in mind.
March 17, 2014 2 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #19
@cr14mson: They come down during YOUR end step...so you get to ultimate and get an immediate 9/9 at EOT
TheAmazingSalsa says... #2
Apart from her ultimate, she's pretty underwhelming. Her +1 is not very good against G/R decks that mostly dominate standard right now and her -1 is not very exciting since she starts with 2 loyalty counters on her.
I've seen some decks using her against an Azorius Control deck. He managed to put Kiora when the enemy had no mana, and 1 Prognostic Sphinx ... It was not hard for him to control the sphinx with the +1 and then just land his emblem.
But that was too specific, and that's my main problem with her. She's only good when you're against weak decks... But that's my opinion.
March 17, 2014 9:54 a.m.