Languish
Standard forum
Posted on July 7, 2015, 9:56 a.m. by UpperDeckerTaco
So there has been a lot of hype about certain Magic Origins cards. Elves and Goblins and White Weenies seem to be running rampant through everyone's top list of decks to play as well as making Control a deck to be a powerhouse to be reckoned with.
With Control getting some new and interesting cards and aggro looking better and better, how does this fair for midrange at the moment? Well it seems that midrange will still be around somewhere, but it seems that it will fall off a bit due to the aggressiveness the Elves and Goblins' decks present.
A lot of talk has been about Control and one card in particular: Languish. As I am an all-around player and play multiple archetypes and numerously different decks from Mono-Red to GR Devotion to Esper Dragons and such, the Control player in me loves Languish as a card in this Standard format, as the Aggro/Midrange player in me, I hate Languish. I love being the one to play that card, not the one that is having that card played on. So we all know the impact it will have for Control players, I would like to start a discussion, and look at the other end of the spectrum, as to how can Aggro/Midrange players beat a card like Languish. Is it possible to beat this card without playing BLUE in our deck? Is it possible to just outrace them before they get to cast Languish or are there no decks that can virtually win Turn 4 right now? What do you think?
you dont really have to win turn 4 if youre playing a midrange deck just play things that survive it like tasigur and siege rhino. Otherwise play around it or bait it out.
July 7, 2015 10:13 a.m.
this thread should be named Languish instead of magic origins, there are literally no other cards in the set for control. Sure, Languish is great for control in getting rid of anything that has 4 or less toughness. I feel it would be best in Abzan control though, where you can cast Tasigurs and Rhinos and have them survive. Overall, it is blue who got shafted this set in terms of control tools this set, getting nothing in particular (Clash of Wills is the best one for blue from the set and it is still mediocre).
IMHO, the UB control archetype is still in the process of being finalized. There are some great options, but the best UB control is yet to be created. I would not make a control deck until BFZ rolls in.
July 7, 2015 10:13 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #5
EmblemMan Now you could do it that way and just bait it out, but if you are not dropping threats, they can literally just 1-for-1 you instead with cheap spot removal. I mean, what I am trying to say is, aggro decks or midrange decks can't rely on making Fleecemane Lion monstrous all that much anymore. It isn't as great to go wide anymore with aggro decks anymore. Valorous Stance and Ajani's Presence are no longer even slightly playable against control anymore. Basically, I can see Collected Company being very good, they play Languish Turn 4 and kill your stuff, then on their end step, you Collected Company and get back probably the same stuff they killed. That's 1 route, but that is also if you are playing green.
July 7, 2015 10:21 a.m.
TheMagicalDuck says... #6
However in white weenie - by playing Vryn Wingmare on turn 3, you stall their Languish for a turn.
July 7, 2015 10:27 a.m.
Then just play better threats they are going to multiple you with one card bait it out and play threats that work as 2 for one card.
July 7, 2015 10:40 a.m.
I've recently gotten into control in a big way. Never really played it much but have come to realize that I really like playing it. That being said, Languish excites me a lot. It was something that control was really lacking (4cmc sweeper) and while I never expected them to reprint Damnation, in the current standard meta Languish is an acceptable substitute in my mind but time will tell if my faith has been misplaced
July 7, 2015 2:27 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #9
Boza There's a lot of control in Origins besides Languish such as: Day's Undoing, Displacement Wave, Infinite Obliteration, Mizzium Meddler, Tainted Remedy, Willbreaker, Anchor to the Aether, Clash of Wills, Hydrolash, Psychic Rebuttal, Turn to Frog, Tormented Thoughts, Bone to Ash, Calculated Dismissal, Disperse, Claustrophobia, Reave Soul, Negate, Read the Bones, Send to Sleep, etc.
July 7, 2015 4:49 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #10
Boza also control decks do the best right after the release of a new set, waiting till BfZ is pointless. The other deck that does well after a new set is Aggro, which gets shut down by Languish if they can't win by turn 4. The question is what can beat control not if control is viable, as I think most pros would agree Control mops up after new sets when people are trying to brew with new cards and incorporate new strategies and archetypes that are clunky and unrefined, vs Control that changes very little (hence addition of only a single new card, Languish, to existing decks such as Sultai Control).
July 7, 2015 4:58 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila ~ my sentiments exactly. Ive been on the receiving end of what I call the "Brew Time Blues".
Theres always a window of about 2 weeks or so when people are brewing with new cards seeing what fits where and such and that is when conteol tends to shine brightest for the reasons you stated. I'm really excited for "new standard" for those reasons as I'm brewing sultai control that is already fairly strong but supplementing Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow with Languish just seems awesome all around.
July 7, 2015 10:11 p.m.
@Jimmy_Chinchila - you just listed random cards that have no real application for a control deck even in standard. Half of those cards are reprints from older sets and/or they have functional replacements (Tormented Thoughts is in theros block even) and they do not see/have not seen Standard play in their time. The ones not covered by this broad stroke are:
Day's Undoing - undoing all the work you did in controlling the game without impacting the board and your opponent getting to play their threats first? Not a good idea.
Displacement Wave - while cool, these type of effects have never been good for control, since you are just delaying, rather dealing with threats (Whelming Wave and AEtherspouts are in standard right now and sees 0 play).
Infinite Obliteration - this is actually better vs control decks, which tend to have a few creatures i.e. Dragonlord Ojutai. Not really usuful vs decks with more than creature.
Mizzium Meddler - may save you from some burn, but is not really that useful in the long run.
Tainted Remedy - really? why is that useful for control?
and finally Willbreaker requires too much investment for too little gain and is a 5 mana creature that dies to all available 2 mana removal spells.
July 8, 2015 2:41 a.m.
I think MO lacks good removal outside of languish, but more will come. I have Faith that by time we see all of what BFZ is bringing, downfall, thoughtsieze, dissolve, and the like will be replaced with intresting spells that fill those slots. In the meantime, languish, clash of wills,and in my opinion disperse in conjunction with our current tool set will make for a powerful control shell
July 11, 2015 4:14 a.m.
I am more worried about having opponents with Day's Undoing.
I plan on using languish heavily in my Abzan control deck. It can't kill creatures as big as mine unless they are early fodder that fuels the delve creatures. Abzan Renown Rhinos
July 12, 2015 10:05 p.m.
''Are there no decks that can virutally win turn 4 right now.'' No. Wizards of the coast don't want decks to consistently win on turn 4 in modern, imagine for standard. Wrath effects are the only ''clean'' way control has to two for one opponents right now, and that is how it should be. You should try and find a way to do the same 2 for 1 post wrath by playing something like Nissa, Worldwaker, Xenagos, the Reveler, Goblin Rabblemaster. Or how about resolving a Jeskai Charm to the face, untapping and playing Outpost Siege on khans? Oh and... try not to get 3 for 1ed.
HolyFalcon says... #2
T1: Monastery Swiftspear, swing 1, opponent at 19
t2: dbl Monastery Swiftspear, swing 3, opponent at 16
t3: triple Titan's Strength, swing 21, opponent at -5
But, being serious, it puts a big problem for aggro/midrange. I'm kinda glad I stopped playing RDW, now I play mono-black aggro/midrange. All my aggro creatures die to this, but all my late-game survives it. My answer is simply they don't.
July 7, 2015 10:01 a.m.