Mardu: jack of all trades, master of none
Standard forum
Posted on April 9, 2015, 2:51 p.m. by wonder_llama
Can someone explain why Mardu isn't better than what it is? I always seem to build a deck that I think should be good, only to playtest it and find it doesn't perform how I thought it would. Now I know I'm not the best pilot of the deck, but searching TCGplayer.com shows that Mardu is in 12th place as far as top 8's in the current meta game, and mtggolfish shows that mardu midrange is only 1.14% of the meta and mardu burn is .91% of the meta. It seems mardu isn't putting up good numbers for the pros either.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/standard_deck_hq.asp http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/standard/full#paper
Why is this? Mardu has access to some of the most powerful cards in the game!
Removal: Hero's Downfall, Crackling Doom, Utter End, Valorous Stance, Mardu Charm, Ultimate Price, Glare of Heresy, Roast, Stoke the Flames, Banishing Light, Chained to the Rocks, Murderous Cut, Thoughtseize, Duress and so on.
Creatures: Stormbreath Dragon, Thunderbreak Regent, Goblin Rabblemaster, Ashcloud Phoenix, Wingmate Roc, Butcher of the Horde, both kolaghans, Soulfire Grand Master, Monastery Mentor, Seeker of the Way and so on.
Planeswalkers: Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Ajani Steadfast, Liliana Vess, Chandra, Pyromaster.
It seems that this deck has a lot of power and can be played multiple ways, but it is never good enough. Can no one put together the correct configuration of the deck? The aggro versions just aren't fast enough, and the midrange decks just can't get there most of the time. It seems that everything mardu can do, and it can do a lot, another deck does it better.
Anyone have an explanation on why mardu isn't putting up better results? And I'm talking about a level higher than FNM.
Also red is better at aggro UB is better at control and abzan is better at midrange (or at least tied).
April 9, 2015 3:37 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #4
Good point. I didn't think of that when I was typing this, but that can't be the only reason though, right? If Stoke the Flames is the main reason mardu isn't seeing top competitive play, wouldn't we see a version of mardu that plays Gods Willings and Valorous Stance in defensive mode?
April 9, 2015 3:37 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #5
@MTGbrewer 2nd comment: That's my point exactly. mardu can play very different game plans, but isn't the best at any one of them. Abzan is definitely better at midrange than mardu.
April 9, 2015 3:39 p.m.
1st wonder_lamb comment. Well then play blue/white heroic.
April 9, 2015 3:41 p.m.
Also imagine how long that gods willing would be stuck in your hand before you could use it.
April 9, 2015 3:44 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #8
yeah, I don't think Gods Willing is what's going to put Mardu on top.
April 9, 2015 3:56 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #9
I think Mardu is solid. I might be a little biased though as I had a lot of success with the archetype winning a PPTQ and top 8ing a Super IQ before DTK was released.
The biggest problem with Mardu in my opinion is the majority of decks are built poorly. Butcher of the Horde sucks in this meta! It really does. People also overload on clunky versatile removal when they should be leveraging tempo. Mardu wants to cast 
spells with a light 
or 
splash yet I keep seeing lists trying to jam and spells into the deck. The mana base can not support such deck building unless you go the control route which folds to 
control decks making it a poor choice for competitive play.
Mardu decks have been best when they are / splashing black for Crackling Doom and Thoughtseize. The archetype also benefits from having access to solid removal like Ultimate Price and Self-Inflicted Wound. For some reason unknown to me the pros have preferred the splash for Mantis Rider and Treasure Cruise even though it has consistently under-preformed and puts up weak results.
How to build Mardu correctly:
April 9, 2015 4:04 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #10
I'm glad to hear of your success with the deck rasta! The Chained to the Rocks and Outpost Siege in the decks you posted scare me. Just too much enchantment hate right now, even though they are powerful cards.
I like the idea of a small black splash for only a couple cards though. What's your opinion on Thunderbreak Regent in the deck in place of Butcher of the Horde at the 4 drop spot?
April 9, 2015 4:33 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #11
Mardu is definitely solid, but I wouldn't call it a "jack of all trades" since it shouldn't be considered to be anything but a midrange strategy (strictly talking about major-tournament standards; you can win with almost anything at FNM).
Three-color aggro in this format is extremely inconsistent due to a so-so mana base, and an absence of Blue permission spells and card draw means that it lacks the inevitability required for control. Mardu's threats are powerful but vulnerable, which also hinders its ability to play control.
IMHO, the best Mardu decks will have a high concentration of valuable threats, hoping to exhaust the opponent's answers, and just enough flexible removal to survive the early game and clear out problematic blockers. Too much removal, and you're trying to play a game that other decks are better at.
April 9, 2015 4:55 p.m.
doctorsmegma says... #12
I'm an avid Mardu player and I must say I feel the same frustration you're describing. With the color base like mardu, you would assume it would have much more power than it actually does... but it just lacks something.
As for Butcher of the Horde I've gotta say that having played with/without him, there are times where he can save the day but there are also times where he is more of a card you just wanna get rid of. I've been in the process of wanting to cut him.
Abzan definitely is a better mid-ranged deck. Mardu doesn't have anything like Siege Rhino or Rakshasa Deathdealer not to mention the green in Abzan allows for mana ramp and much more control.
The problem I truly think with Mardu is that there are so many cards that are good outside of Mardu.. It's just a matter of what is GOOD in mardu. Mardu is overwhelming in a sense where it is a mental dilemma trying to cut a card because so many cards are good.
Mardu needs some sort of synergy and is definitely the bastard child of DTK. I'm not giving up though. I'll figure something out somehow. Lol.
Butcher of the Horde is the one card I'm trying to cut right now and I'm not quite sure what should take his place.
April 11, 2015 7:20 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #13
Butcher of the Horde has been really hit or miss for me. His lifelink ability feels great when it happens, but most of the time he catches a Stoke the Flames. And he is terrible when facing down a Stormbreath Dragon. I've been running Thunderbreak Regent in his place, and it's worked out ok. I'm planning on running some number of Thunderbreak Regent, Butcher of the Horde and Ashcloud Phoenix, hopefully they will cover all the bases :)
April 13, 2015 9:32 a.m.
doctorsmegma says... #14
Butcher of the Horde is just too vulnerable to a lot of removal. The only time he really gets the job done is either when your oppenent has no cards or there is also like a Goblin Rabblemaster in play. The key to using Butcher properly lies with sacrificing tokens and by that time, your opponent has already drawn at least 4 times which means he has at least 1 Valorous Stance Stoke the Flames Hero's Downfall Chained to the Rocks Banishing Light etc etc etc
Tonight I'm going to be testing out a "Dragon Mardu Midranged" to see how it turns out. The people who play Monday nights are some of the more competetive people I play against so we'll see how it turns out.
I'll have no Butcher but I will have 4 Thunderbreak Regent and 2 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury with the addition to 2-3 Draconic Roar and Soulfire Grand Master. I'm also going to try out Gods Willing as well considering my deck is very mid-ranged and I'll need to protect my creatures when I eventually get them out.
Still don't have a great defense plan for RDW, though. Just gonna have to throw in 2 Anger of the Gods and hope for good draws. I should probably consider throwing in a Despise or Duress too to avoid the Goblin Heelcutter because that's where I always get screwed.
April 13, 2015 11:53 a.m.
So I have had some decent success with Mardu prior to DTK. Havent played it at all since then though. The thing I find is that there are so many good cards its hard to include all of them and some people tend to just jam good stuff in and it gets clunky.
Pro's: Crackling Doom this cards is just so damn good. It is pretty much the main reason of going all three colours. Butcher is the next card and people are right that it just isnt great when compared to other 4 mana creatures IF you dont have tokens to sac ( or bloodseaked champ).
So then you get to the fact that there are multiple good decks that can be made. Mardu tokens with Brutal Hordechief and butcher as finishers is a great deck. Mardu midrange/ superfriends is great too, but without counter spells it loses to other control I feel. Mardu dragons could work too. I have actually tried out a deck using Dragonlord's Servant and that card really helps you get some dragons out quick.
I think the best way to play mardu is to choose the deck you want to play and then stick to that theme and dont try to jam in cards that dont help your end goal. Even if they are really good.
April 13, 2015 2:23 p.m.
Tried a couple Dragonlord's Servant a couple weeks ago and they were fail. Died same turn it was played usually.
I have played mardu since khans and can state that when built properly UB still smokes nearly every time. Think that is the weakness since UB is so commonly played. The upside is that I have been 3-1 nearly every week at FNM. Downside is that I NEVER hit 4-0 due to always hitting an opponent that plays UB. The best cards I have found are Thoughtseize and Duress.
In the last couple weeks playing with my kolaghan dragons deck have been equally good since DTK came out. I am going to experiment with mono red next week to see if I crack 4-0 finally.
Monastery Swiftspear IMHO is probably the best one drop creature ever. I am very happy with adding Dragon Fodder to replace Raise the Alarm when I dropped white. Hordeling Outburst has been my most successful three drop, though Hero's Downfall rocks also. Butcher of the Horde was good when sacking a goblin for haste but has been replaced with Thunderbreak Regent in attempt to get more speed by cutting down to two and now one color. Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury was great dashed in also. Elspeth, Sun's Champion gave great mileage also when I played white.
April 13, 2015 9:53 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #17
@ohmless, maybe try Mardu Charm in the main to improve the match up against U/B control. It can serve as a Stoke the Flames burning a creature, a token producer, or an instant speed Duress. I have found it to be very versatile.
April 14, 2015 8:20 a.m.
wonder_llama says... #18
has anyone tried a deck out with multiple Kolaghan's Command and Whip of Erebos? It seems that the majority of people think Butcher of the Horde and Goblin Rabblemaster are too fragile now, but these two cards would allow you to play aggressively and be able to get your creatures back later.
April 15, 2015 3:04 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #19
wonder_llama I haven't found a way to comfortably cast spells even though I'm now heavier on the black and have abandoned Chained to the Rocks.
Butcher of the Horde is just a worse card than Thunderbreak Regent, Ashcloud Phoenix, Outpost Siege, Stoke the Flames and Chandra, Pyromaster. It's hard to put it into a deck when it ties your hands on other choices when deck building and there are better cards to run. Butcher wants tokens and Whip doesn't like Hordeling Outburst or Dragon Fodder.
April 15, 2015 3:29 p.m.
Kolaghan's Command has successfully replaced a couple spots in my sideboard previously the place of Shatter that was to be used against Whip of Erebos decks. This is in my Kolaghan dragons deck. TBH I haven't yet built a deck that took advantage of the whip fully.
April 15, 2015 6:06 p.m.
wonder_llama I have Kolaghan's Command in for 3 slots in main and 1 in side. It works perfectly with 6 mana and a Goblin Rabblemaster, plus shuts down whip
Rasta_Viking29 would mainboarding 2-3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth help at all?
April 16, 2015 11:42 a.m.
wonder_llama says... #22
I agree Rasta_Viking29, Butcher of the Horde is just not strong now compared to the other 4 drop fliers. I'm working with a mardu build now that mirrors the G/r deck CVM won with recently. A bunch of dragons and Draconic Roar with removal, but I think a jund build would just be better...
April 16, 2015 4:20 p.m.
Thee_Irishman says... #23
here's something you might wanna wrap your noodle around trying. mardu control via dragons. we've all seen what red green dragons have done with Draconic Roar and what esper/dimir has done with Foul-Tongue Invocation. Time to show them what mardu can do! With Stormbreath Dragon Thunderbreak Regent and the kolaghan twins there's a total capability of making it. Along with all of the removal you stated. I think the major thing mardu was missing was Foul-Tongue Invocation. DAT LIFE GAIN
April 17, 2015 5:06 a.m.
wonder_llama says... #24
didn't mardu try something like this early on with Nyx-Fleece Ram for early blocks and life gain? minus the Foul-Tongue Invocation though.
April 17, 2015 8:23 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #25
Those decks tend to be great against creature decks and complete dogs to control. Mardu can be played many different ways and be solid but not awesome. If you want to go B/W/r Control then you'll probably end up with Abzan Control being the better deck. If Mardu is going to be the master of any archetype then it is Disruptive Aggro. R/W was that deck before DTK. Now that Sligh and Swarm Aggro is doing great in the meta the Disruptive deck is lurking in the shadows because of it's bad matchups. My deck is now R/B/w and features the cards you mentioned Thee_Irishman but I'm concerned that it is way worse against Control. My plan is to try and get around 20 matches in this weekend so I should some good info.
April 17, 2015 9:49 a.m.
Thee_Irishman says... #26
Rasta_Viking29please let me know how it goes. I started mardu as my first clan and quickly jumped ship after buying all the cards just because it refused to perform. Went sultai, still I am just not fast enough for my taste. So I swap between mono red, sultai, and boros midrange. But I really would like to utilize my mardu some day.
MTGbrewer says... #2
Notice that almost every thing you listed is in stoke range. According to MTGgoldfish, stoke is the most dominant card in standard. Compared to the other clans that is bad. Temur has 5+ toughness creatures (not that it makes it any good), Jeskai has no good targets (Tokens/spells) Abzan has da Rhino, and Whip targets get immediate value 'cus of ETB effects.
April 9, 2015 3:16 p.m.