Mono Black...
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 26, 2013, 10:45 p.m. by Stone_Munkee
This deck is beyond obnoxious... How do you even deal with it? Once they can get a Pack Rat on the field with any form of card draw like Underworld Connections it's pretty much game over. But aside from that, between Duress Thoughtseize and Lifebane Zombie , they're always going to know what's in your hand and ontop of that they've made you discard several cards already. Pounds of removal from Devour Flesh , Doom Blade , Dark Betrayal , and Hero's Downfall . And to top it off, they can stabilize through anything with Whip of Erebos or Gray Merchant of Asphodel . SO what is the way to go around beating this?
Pack Rat gets annihilated by Supreme Verdict and Detention Sphere . Sphinx's Revelation and Steam Augury outpace the opponent's card advantage engines. AEtherling and Assemble the Legion beat all of their creatures in a race. Counterspells beat their Whip of Erebos and pretty much anything else they play in the mid and late game. I played a match against mono-black with UWR and it wasn't even close. Control decks reportedly have an awful matchup against mono-black, but I have seen no firsthand evidence to support that claim.
October 26, 2013 11:40 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #4
I'm really enjoying the deck myself (Cookies for Everyone! is my version) and I'll say that if you can hold off and Magma Jet the Pack Rat as soon as it's out or Lightning Strike the Nightveil Specter as soon as you're able it REALLY puts a hamper on the B player's game.
TL;DR, Burn and kill stuff to keep the rats in check.
October 26, 2013 11:40 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #5
As Jimhawk said just go control and you be fine for the reasons listed.
October 26, 2013 11:47 p.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #6
We had our bigger local tournament this morning and the top was 2 mono-reds (I was one of them), 2 mono-blacks, 2 mono greens, an esper control and a dimir/mono blue. I played the esper control in round 1 of the finals and won 2-1, and then the dimir/mono blue in round 2, where I also went 2-1. Played one of the mono blacks in round 3 for the money and got 2-0'd. Game 1 he just destroyed everything I played, and game 2, made me discard everything.
October 27, 2013 12:01 a.m.
ShadowLand says... #7
I honestly have to say, the B/G version of the mono-black deck is harder to beat, they have more removal, Golgari Charm to beat out the Supreme Verdict and Lotleth Troll that is annoying and hard to kill. Unless you are playing mega control that deck is power
October 27, 2013 12:06 a.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #8
I can see where Jimhawk is coming from, and everything you said seems entirely solid. One little caveat though, I'm an avid control hater and will never play the deck. I actually enjoy playing magic, and when people just say no they everything you'd like to play is frustrating as sin. Thankfully my LGS is an aggro/midrange environment.
October 27, 2013 12:11 a.m.
ShadowLand says... #9
I am with you on that Stone_Munkee, my first match yesterday was against a mono-blue control, and the game went 47 minutes until he finally milled me to nothing with jace, with me at 38 life and him at 3, yuck. The only creature he played the entire game was AEtherling . Just annoying as hell.
October 27, 2013 12:18 a.m.
maybe if you love mono red or fast decks, try B/R? spell for things like devour flesh, doom blade, ultimate price, to replace cards like lightning strike (when i played mono red it was just a kill card to clear a path for creatures anyway) or green/red devoution?
October 27, 2013 12:20 a.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #11
G/R devotion is probably the next deck I'm going to be building. I'm actually not a fan of the mono-red decks, but I played it this morning because I wasn't feeling confident with either of my other decks that I have, one being mono-white and the other being simic/mono blue with Prophet of Kruphix and Master Biomancer so the Master of Waves tokens dont die when they just Doom Blade the master. I vastly do prefer mid-rangey decks to just straight up hard aggro like RDW
October 27, 2013 12:28 a.m.
ShadowLand says... #12
I mean, to be honest, really anyone playing black has a distinct advantage in the form of Hero's Downfall , which is one of the only spells besides Dreadbore that distinctly targets planeswalkers that isn't mega expensive
October 27, 2013 12:31 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #13
I have both decks and must say the B/G version annihilates the Mono.B.
deck-large:blck-mbc-standard-x/
October 27, 2013 12:32 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #14
G/B Removal suite is too strong.a standard legal Maelstrom Pulse would make it more nuts though.Throw in Scavenging Ooze Deathrite Shaman and Kalonian Hydra into the equation and u have a beast of a deck.
October 27, 2013 12:37 a.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #15
Maelstrom Pulse is probably one of the dumbest cards ever printed, I mean lets be real there lol. The fact that Pack Rat is basically un-killable, and even if you do manage to get it, they'll whip it back later and just churn out copies that will stick even after the original dies. The Mutavault plays with Pack Rat is probably my favorite part of it though.
October 27, 2013 12:55 a.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #16
Mono Black Devotion. near as I can tell, this seems to be the winner list for the archetype, just went by memory so I don't recall everything exactly.
October 27, 2013 1 a.m.
Pithing Needle shuts down Pack Rat and Underworld Connections . Slaughter Games takes care of any other major threat, Ratchet Bomb takes care of rat tokens and everything else that isn't Erebos, God of the Dead .
October 27, 2013 1:35 a.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #18
Pithing Needle doesn't necessarily shut down Underworld Connections because the land gains the ability, naming Underworld Connections with it effectively does nothing.
October 27, 2013 1:53 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #19
@Mythimine Ratchet Bomb doesn't take care of the tokens unless you have it at 2 counters. The Pack Rat tokens are COPIES of the Pack Rat meaning they have the activated ability AND the cmc of the original. They even add to the devotion count.
October 27, 2013 9:04 a.m.
quadspell1 says... #20
@Stone_Munkee you could name the land that Underworld Connections is enchanting. Pithing Needle can target any card.
October 27, 2013 12:10 p.m.
I never said that the Ratchet of Ratchet Bomb was at 0. I am well aware that it needs to be at 2. Pithing Needle calling the land Underworld Connections is on does shut it down. You do not call Underworld Connections because it says "The Land gains..." meaning you must call the land it is on.
October 27, 2013 11:35 p.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #22
@quadspell1 that's basically what I said. That's why they run multiple different types of land, so just naming Swamp can't shut it down. Pithing Needle DOES however shut-down Pack Rat hard, but it still doesn't shut the deck down, you still have to deal with all the other nonsense.
October 28, 2013 9:20 a.m.
notamardybum says... #23
theres always answers to everything, but not every deck is going to have an answer.
October 28, 2013 6:32 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #24
or that just because you have it in your deck that you will draw into it.
October 28, 2013 6:53 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #26
So far I've been fine against Mono Black with Yippie Ki Yay. Blood Baron of Vizkopa is an absolute game ender.
October 28, 2013 7:06 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #27
Pithing Needle and Ratchet Bomb BOTH are solid answers to a Pack Rat if you're not playing U/W for Supreme Verdict or Detention Sphere .
Cyclonic Rift overloaded also does a good job vs them
October 29, 2013 9:43 a.m.
deathtouch_roadrunner says... #28
It's pretty sad, but I think all you really need to stop mono black are Assemble the Legion and Sundering Growth , Solemn Offering or Naturalize ... well, you get the idea.
The green splash is really much more interesting since it has better removal, but I think the same general principal applies.
October 30, 2013 4:26 a.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #29
How does assemble or enchantment removal beat getting Gray Merchant of Asphodel 'd over and over?
October 30, 2013 5:08 a.m.
deathtouch_roadrunner says... #30
Without draw the odds of more than 1 or 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel are really low. (Even with odds I usually don't see more than 2.) Likewise, the odds of having enough removal for the whole game without draw are low. There's a reason the deck runs 4 Underworld Connections . Not only does it need the draw, it needs the devotion.
If you can play Assemble the Legion , they can't remove it or generate enough blockers to keep up. Even with Underworld Connections on turn 3, if you Assemble the Legion on turn 3 or 4 (depending on your mana fixing strategy), you neutralize the Pack Rat , can keep Desecration Demon locked down, make Devour Flesh worthless, and have the pressure to end things within 4 or 5 turns. If you really need to, you can also do in their Whip of Erebos .
Gray Merchant of Asphodel requires lots of mana and lots of devotion with lots of card draw to keep the game controlled. Enchantment destruction and Assemble the Legion strike this right on the head.
October 30, 2013 10:38 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #31
Gray Merchant of Asphodel is a win-more card. If u have enough tools on the board to make it worth while, you probably are already winning and would win just fine without it. Personally (and I know Gray has potential to do more) I just run Corrupt , which is solid no matter what state of the board, and a much better top deck late game.
October 30, 2013 11:09 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #32
Whip of erebos disagrees man. You can't whip out a corrupt.
October 30, 2013 11:46 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #33
I know your far more experienced than me at the game and know what your talking about but im against using the whip too.
October 30, 2013 12:14 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #35
Oh, but according to most people Whip of Erebos is just a dumb card that has no use and should be sideboarded in every instance except where life-loss is an issue, and then brought in only as a 1-of. I have heard that from several sources, and yet it keeps winning me games . . .
October 30, 2013 12:48 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #37
That's kind of what I thought fluffybunnypants, I do say that it isn't the reanimator card that everyone thought it would be, but it's far from useless and lets games that go a bit longer get in it for the long game
October 30, 2013 12:52 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #38
If you by "most people" you mean me. I don't recall any one else saying that besides me.
I've play tested your deck, and I don't mean to sound harsh but if that is winning you games then I question your competition.
October 30, 2013 12:58 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #39
You are also not the only person I play APPLE01DOJ, I was told that by 3 people at FNM and two so far on cockatrice when they asked to see my deck list, and I did take quite a few of your suggestions btw :)
my newest decklist Straight Junk
I do listen, I just don't happen to share your opinion on the whip
October 30, 2013 1:09 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #40
The whip is SEVERELY underrated.
Against control it's huge as they cannot counter the creatures once whip resolves. They gain haste which is a must and since 99.9999999% of games won now are by LP I'd say lifelink plays a hell of a roll.
Not to mention it adds 2 to your devotion for Gray Merchant of Asphodel to drain for 4, AND allows Erebos, God of the Dead to come alive that much sooner.
I would only run 2 as they are legendary however, because having more in your hand is dead cards (unless you have an @%% load of mana and you should already have the game won by then)
October 30, 2013 3:57 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #41
@harrydemon117 additional whips can be discarded as Pack Rat fodder.
October 30, 2013 4:06 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #42
That's true, but that means you have to have one out for it. I just don't like running more than 2 of a legendary permanent that isn't a planeswalker or a creature with an ETB effect.
The other thing about it is that it cannot win a game on its own and needs "fodder" to make it work. If I keep it at 2, then my chances are good that I won't see them until I need them mid game which is where I want them
October 30, 2013 4:25 p.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #43
also Gray Merchant of Asphodel is pretty much strictly better than Corrupt . You're already running a mound of kill-spells so they creature removal is moot. Gray merchant costs less, and will 9/10 get you a bigger bang for your buck, and has the added benefit of 2-for1 with Whip of Erebos
October 30, 2013 10:52 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #44
The word strictly better is not the right word for it something that is strictly better would be Counterspell vs Cancel
Also in defense of Corrupt you don't need anything but swamps for Corrupt to work with Gray you need a cards on the board for its effect to work but Gray does provide a body and the devotion cost is not hard to get in a mono deck unless your mono-black control which I that case I would think Corrupt would be better.
So to me Corrupt is for Mono-black control and Gray is for a Mono-black Aggro.
October 30, 2013 11:11 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #45
Corrupt is definitely good in mono-black control, however they are running Monoblack devotion which Gray Merchant of Asphodel seems better suited to me.
It costs one less, has a good chance of draining for just the same amount (assuming casted at the same time as Corrupt would be here on turn 6), AND in the case of a Skullcrack you have a defender now that can block a creature.
If people use strictly swamps and no Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Mutavault lands then I can see the switch to Corrupt eventually if the metagame goes more towards control
October 31, 2013 8:55 a.m.
Stone_Munkee says... #46
No matter what, they're going to run at least 3 different types of lands. Mutavault will most likely stay because it can be used as a combat trick to buff Pack Rat . Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is pretty obvious why it's here, but the Temple of Deceit or Temple of Silence whichever they decide run are odd-balls. BUT they NEED the different types otherwise Underworld Connections will get shut down by a single Pithing Needle
October 31, 2013 9:03 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #47
I believe that reinforces my point Stone_Munkee I think? Too early to tell an I haven't had any coffee yet lol
October 31, 2013 9:10 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #48
I am playing Grixis Superfriends/Control and my answers for Pack Rat are Anger of the Gods before things get out of control (exiling the original neutralizes the whip), Ratchet Bomb for the tokens, and Rakdos Charm . The Rakdos Charm is getting overlooked because it is not in most decks colors but it can exile all the whips targets at instant speed or can destroy the whip.
October 31, 2013 1:21 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #49
Rasta_Viking29 as I have said before just be aware that Ratchet Bomb must be popped for 2.
October 31, 2013 1:28 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #50
Ohthenoises I got away with bombing the tokens for 0 this past FNM. I wasn't aware that the copies copy the mana cost as well, neither were the 2 opponents I did it to. I've since seen more and more people saying that it does and adds to devotion as well. Thanks for confirming. Makes Ratchet Bomb less attractive.
ShadowLand says... #2
I don't know how to beat it, other than Blood Baron of Vizkopa and counter spells, but as I found out earlier, unless you have something else on the field, even that falls prey to Devour Flesh . I do know one deck that beats it though, Mono-Black that's built better.
October 26, 2013 11:15 p.m.