Mutavault + descendant's path
Standard forum
Posted on July 18, 2013, 10:26 a.m. by Apoptosis
Any thoughts on Mutavault + Descendants' Path combo in creature based decks with green? Tribal still works best, but Mutavault ... Does it make many non tribal decks viable. The strategy would be to get Mutavault in your opening hand then play whatever deck you have normally until you get descendant's path]], then it's GG because you'll get ridiculous card advantage.
Thoughts?
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #3
Well the interaction won't be in Standard long enough to do anything, so we're stuck with eternal formats.
In Legacy and Modern, I see it being used mainly to cheat out Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
.
The problem there is that in Legacy you have Show and Tell , which is already way faster and more reliable as a deck.
In Modern you lack the powerful cheat cards like Show and Tell , so this becomes more of a possibility, but you lack sufficient setup (like Brainstorm ) to make the interaction reliable.
July 18, 2013 10:38 a.m.
It's very useful, but I'm not convinced its good game, especially since Descendants' Path allows you to cast it, not put it onto the battlefield.
It does allow for interesting decks that have mainly high cost creatures, but it feels like those would be a little random. To maximize the effect of the combo, you want lots of really high cost, powerful creatures and just enough land to play descendant's path. But this leaves you very vulnerable. Basically, it would be like this: Did I get a Mutavault and a Descendant's Path within the first 3-4 turns? If so, I win, provided I'm not playing against control. If not, I lose as you beat me down.
July 18, 2013 10:38 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #5
@ShiltonCDXX: No, it would just be a normal deck with a heavy creature theme. The deck would be built just like any other deck, probably with about a 50% chance at any given time to trigger Descendants' Path .
July 18, 2013 10:39 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #6
I think part of the problem with the deck as a concept is that a creature-heavy deck wants to keep dropping creatures to hold board pressure, and dropping this enchantment on turn 3 ends up slowing down the early pressure.
You could go with almost all Fatties and just use the DP as a pseudo-ramp, but then you're extremely weak when you have draws with no early-game plays.
July 18, 2013 10:42 a.m.
I've made a deck that might be something interesting for you to look at. It's called Señor Eldrazi - Perfect Form, it focuses on the Eldrazi Titans. You might like it.
July 18, 2013 10:44 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #9
I think for now that's about as good as you're gonna get the strategy. It seems fun to play, but definitely not consistent enough to start owning tournaments with.
July 18, 2013 10:47 a.m.
landgrafb I mean for standard, I realize that we only get a few months. ShiltonCDXX no, see below.
raithe000 I've played around with Descendants' Path based decks (e.g. A dance with dragons and Angels from above) and realize that they are wildly inconsistent because you need to build around Descendants' Path and make it tribal. Mutavault gives you much more flexibility, so I want to revisit the idea with that in mind.
This would be for a heavy creature deck that may or may not have tribal elements. You don't need Descendants' Path in your starting hand... Heck you don't need Mutavault either. The idea is to include these two elements so that by midgame you get the combo in place and then gain huge potential for card advantage.
Obviously, one issue with Descendants' Path is the possibility of throwing valuable cards to the bottom of your library, so I don't see this necessarily as a 4 of where you want the combo at the expense of a solid build, but rather as a 2-3x on Descendants' Path and 4x on Mutavault (since it has other value as a utility land), so that in midgame you can kick in card advantage. That's might not be the right strategy, and is why I want to discuss the possible application...
July 18, 2013 10:51 a.m.
Fingers crossed that Theros is enchantment based, cause I'm taking it to the GP for lulz
July 18, 2013 10:51 a.m.
It might have a place in these new aggro-midrange builds using Voice of Resurgence where your CMC tops off at ~5, by turn 6 these decks start to have issues with other midrange decks that stretch into better creatures. If your deck has a lot of 2-4 CMC creatures, then you can probably play Descendants' Path turn 4-6 and still drop a creature. Once in place it allows a much faster recovery after a board wipe and would allow you to overextend a little bit...
July 18, 2013 10:56 a.m.
I was assuming that you meant the combo as the main focus, not as a side condition/backup for board wipes.
Honestly, I'm not seeing amazing card advantage. You basically get one creature for 1 mana per turn at best, and the rest of the time you spent 1 mana to either see a land a useful card go to the bottom of your deck. That's not bad, but its not game-winning either. And in the kind of deck you are talking about, you are still getting 2-4 cmc creatures, not game enders.
July 18, 2013 11:25 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #15
I dunno, I think a normal midrange deck could easily spring for 3-4 Mutavault
s and 2-3 Descendants' Path
without throwing their game plan off too much. Top deck tutor for your singleton Emrakul and away you go.
Again, the problem is using turn 2 to drop an enchantment that does nothing on it's own rather than a ramp spell or some creature that will effect the board.
July 18, 2013 11:42 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #16
I'm sure there are better ways to play it, I just threw a bunch of mana dorks in with some utility creatures and a midrange distraction. It's a start.
July 18, 2013 12:11 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #17
Alternatively, what if you slapped it in a Quest for Ula's Temple shell? It's not particularly tournament competitive, but it is pretty damn Timmyish. With decent synergy.
July 18, 2013 12:15 p.m.
For a standard matchup, I threw it into a creature heavy Naya midrange deck I'm still tinkering with: The Voice of Naya. I ran three games against another midrange deck, combo never came out nor did either card influence the matchup. Write-up of the match is on the deck.
July 18, 2013 2:07 p.m.
A deck with 3-4 Descendants' Path , 3-4 Into the Wilds , 3-4 "Oath of the Ancient Wood", and 2-3 Primeval Bounty ..... and the rest creatures, Forest s and 4x Mutavault could be interesting.
The rest of the creatures wouldn't have to be "big creatures" that you want to cheat int play... just creatures you would normally play with, or that help with early board state (mana dorks for ramp, Deadly Recluse , Strangleroot Geist , Witchstalker , Kalonian Tusker ... a couple Kalonian Hydra .... etc.)
Look at the synergies within the Enchantments:
Creatures that Descendants' Path "cheats" into play are CAST.... thus triggering Primeval Bounty .
Land brought into play by Into the Woods triggers Primeval Bounty
If you stack Upkeep triggers so that Into the Wilds resolves before Descendants' Path , you "remove" any land that would be in the way, making it more likely that you will get a free creature. (or reverse that if you're wanting to ensure you get a free land drop.)
Excess of these enchantments will be useful, as multiple triggers do not necessarily become redundant (i.e.: 2x Into the Wilds , and 2x Descendants' Path , can be alternately stacked, increasing the odds of multiple free permanents.)
"Oath of the Ancients" may be the weakest link of these cards... might not be as useful, but would would be triggered often, and it, as well as all Enchantments would trigger Primeval Bounty .
Note a lack of "mass enchantment removal" being used in current Standard... this means that after a "board wipe" for creatures, you are likely to have a board full of creatures in 1-2 turns.
July 18, 2013 2:35 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #20
RedCloud2012 created an interesting deck that he is currently working on with that combo about a week ago. The deck is Mutavault Junk Rites in case anyone would like a reference point.
AjMcGamer says... #2
are you saying to only run Mutavault s as your only land? so it would be 4x Mutavault 4xDescendants' Path and 32 creatures?
July 18, 2013 10:37 a.m.