Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 26, 2014, 4:19 p.m. by abenz419
Aside from the cost of 6 mana, what are the inherent drawbacks of this card that I'm missing?? In a world of devotion, and mono black being one of the most dominant, how come this card hasn't seen some kind of appearance somewhere?
Limited evasion?? It's no more limited than Desecration Demon and no more vulnerable to removal than the demon is either. That's why I thought it would have at least shown up in some mono black deck somewhere. It add 3 devotion for gray merchants, requires removal or a creature able to block flying to deal with it in combat, unlike the demon which can be dealt with before attackers are ever declared each turn. I'm not saying i'm surprised the regent hasn't seen play over the demon or anything like that, but with everything black has available to it (Thoughtseize , Hero's Downfall , and other various spot removal spells and hand disruption) I'm surprised we haven't seen some sort of mono black semi-control deck that uses these big nasty flyers to finish off their opponent and the merchants for direct life drain. You also mentioned G/B decks, splashing just a little bit of green adds to what you have available to you with things like Putrefy , Abrupt Decay , and Golgari Charm and Sylvan Caryatid for that extra mana fixing. The caryatid also makes the regent playbale on turn 5, which obviously isn't too mana intensive because black decks are already running gray merchants as a 5 drop.
January 26, 2014 4:58 p.m.
Yes, but the Demon is two cheaper and can come down the turn before Gray Merchant, instead of the turn after/force the Gray Merchant back two turns.
The issues with mono-black control at the moment is that there is no mono-black board wipe (though Drown in Sorrow is close), and there is no black Aetherling/Obzedat/Blood Baron equivalent (a beater that has at least some built in way to dodge removal). Additionally, to maximize value off of Gray Merchant, you need to be adding black mana symbols to the battlefield, which is at odds with the usual methodology of control and rewards a more midrangey type deck. In that situation, Gray Merchant will already be winning you the game and you simply don't need Necropolis Regent. And again, Necropolis Regent is a very win-more card. Assuming you drop it turn 6, the most it probably does that turn is buff the Desecration demon you were already playing to a 12/12, but if your opponent got hit with a 6/6 twice and drained for a bunch with Gary, you were already going to win. Regardless, you won't hit for 12 until next turn anyway.
And like I said above, G/B isn't seeing play much right now in big tournaments (I don't know about FNM). And playing it turn 5 doesn't really help, because you still probably wanted to play Gray Merchant the turn before, and it still is a win-more card.
January 26, 2014 5:22 p.m.
infinitemana says... #5
Necropolis Regent is a color intensive six drop that does nothing to protect itself, and does nothing the turn it enters the battlefield. It's just not very efficient.
January 26, 2014 5:43 p.m.
@infinitemana I could say the same thing about a lot of the cards that have helped build devotion decks. So I highly doubt that's the exact and only reason why, and will kindly ask you to not just spout off the same garbage everyone says every single time a question is asked about cards that the pro's aren't currently using, I don't need that robotic answer that people give when they don't know what to say but wanna sound like they do. Actually the fact that it's color intensive adds more to the argument that a devotion deck could benefit from it as opposed to the argument that devotion decks aren't running it ever because it's color intensive.
January 26, 2014 6:19 p.m.
infinitemana says... #7
abenz419: I am not trying to sound like I know everything, and I obviously don't because I overlooked the devotion the Necropolis Regent provides. However I am curious about what cards you are referring to that have helped build devotion decks that you can say about Regent.
January 26, 2014 6:30 p.m.
@raithe000 actually being able to play it on turn 5 does make a big difference. Odds are, if your using the little bit of ramp from the caryatid then dropping down a gray merchant a turn early on 4 isn't gonna have a big impact because your not gonna have the devotion. Instead you can play your demon on turn 4 like normal, then turn 5 you can put out another large flyer that your opponent has to deal with immediately or else, then drop a merchant the very next turn. While the demon is cheaper to cast, it's actually much easier to deal with on a turn to turn basis than the regent is. I'm not saying that I feel like it should be included in every top tier black deck, but I don't see why a B/G devotion deck with some good early game control concepts is out of the realm of possibility
January 26, 2014 6:34 p.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #9
I dont play standard but I do love this card. Great art and decent all around. I wont be complaining about it : )
January 26, 2014 6:47 p.m.
well just for instance, Nightveil Specter and Boros Reckoner , both are very color intensive creatures that can't protect themselves and don't do anything the turn they come into play. Granted they're not 6 drops but it doesn't change the fact that their triple color symbols greatly reduce the amount of decks that they can actually be played in effectively. Arbor Colossus see's play in green devotion decks and Gruul monster decks and it's a color intensive 5 drop that does nothing the turn it comes into play and can't protect itself in any way. Devotion has changed the way we think about cards and their casting cost, and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx has made us change what we consider as too costly because of the amount of ramp devotion provides. So what is it about Necropolis Regent that it hasn't governed more consideration in this world of Devotion Ramp that we now have? That's what I'm really wondering.
January 26, 2014 6:48 p.m.
I didn't say G/B was outside the realm of possibility, but you are asking why we haven't seen this card. We are only going to notice decks that hit big tournaments and the decks in our local meta, unless you happen to travel a lot. I can't speak as to your local meta, but so far there are no B/G decks that have done well at a big tournament (to my knowledge), so I've been discounting the possibility of seeing the card there, because those decks don't exist in the meta yet.
The issue with two-color devotion in general is that its hard to find a way to make sure you have enough devotion for both colors. B/G in particular has neither its god nor its scryland, and has the issue that Black and Green are the two colors with the most colored mana symbols in their cards, so their hard to mesh well together without a really stellar land base, and even then it's a risk right now.
You still haven't really addressed the issue that this is a win more card. To put it another way, what kind of play can you imagine where playing this will win you the game, but you would not have won if you hadn't played the card.
January 26, 2014 6:58 p.m.
(Sorry, didn't see your last post before my last one.)
It's a six drop that is not in green and doesn't win you the game that turn. Arbor Colossus isn't a great comparison, because in most decks it is run in, it can come down turn 4 or even 3, depending on the hand. When I play Necropolis Regent , even assuming I can attack with other creatures, there is no real benefit until my next turn. If I can't attack with other creatures, there is no real benefit for two turns. Just being a 6/5 flier is not enough.
January 26, 2014 7:05 p.m.
the comparison is just fine, because regardless of what turn you play it on, it still a color intensive 5 drop that doesn't win you the game the turn it comes into play and is just as vulnerable to removal as everything else, which is the point I was making, that saying something is vulnerable to removal and color intensive isn't the go to answer anymore for why a card may or may not see play.
Even in a straight mono black deck you can easily ramp with something like Nykthos. So what situation would I want to play this card where I wasn't already winning??? That's easy, any situation where I need to get damage through but can't because the Demon is being tapped down. Or how about any situation where I need a blocker to avoid lethal damage but can't block because they sac'd at the beginning of combat and tapped the demon. The regent's ability is just icing on the cake, not the reason your playing it. You'd play it because it's a 6/5 flyer with no drawbacks that's add 3 to your devotion, making it even easier to play things using nykthos and increases the effectiveness of your gray merchants.
January 26, 2014 7:51 p.m.
The comparison is rather different. There is a significant difference between a turn 3 6/6 and a turn 6 6/5 flier. Additionally, the point I was making with the color intensive part was that was why we aren't seeing it in other decks. Even if a card is absolutely amazing in one deck, if it can only be played in that one deck, you aren't going to see it a lot. Even if Necropolis Regent fit into B/G and mono-Black, you still wouldn't see much of it, because there are many other decks that simply can't run it. You won't see Arbor Colossus or Nightveil Specter in anything outside their respective devotion decks.
What I was trying to get at by "what situation would you want to play this card where you weren't already winning?" was how does this help against the different matchups. Here is how I think it holds up.
Aggro: Comes in too late. Even with Nykthos, it doesn't come in until turn 5 by my calculations. By that time, your dead or almost dead or you've blunted aggro's attack. Either way, you were already winning.
Midrange: Against Midrange, one of MBD's strengths is it's great removal suite. If your Desecration Demon is getting repeatedly tapped down, you are doing it wrong. Desecration Demon is already hitting in for 6 a turn, starting earlier.
Control: Again, the earliest this guy can come out in MBD is turn 5. By that time, Control should be well positioned to counter or remove the Regent, and since it has no protection from removal, you are in trouble.
Mirror: If you were already hitting in with your Desecration Demon, you are probably going to win without the Regent. If you weren't the best this card will do is trade with the opponent's Desecration Demon.
As far as MBD is concerned, Desecration Demon already has no drawbacks, as they were going to kill all the creatures anyway.
All of this is kindof pointless, anyway. If you think the card should go in MBD or a B/G variant, prove it. Go build the deck and show us. Proof is always better than this he said, she said thing we've been doing.
raithe000 says... #2
It's 6 mana, 3 of which is black, which makes it too mana intensive for anything other than mono-Black or maybe Black-Green. Black-Green hasn't seen play and probably won't until Journey into Nyx, if then.
The issue for Mono-Black is that it doesn't win you the game. Mono-Black already has Desecration Demon for high powered flyer and Gray Merchant of Asphodel for finishing/stabilizing. This card requires other cards to do anything, and is pretty much the definition of "win-more". It also has no way to dodge removal and limited evasion.
All in all, just not worth it.
January 26, 2014 4:23 p.m.