Need help. Tournies and returning investment.
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 1, 2013, 12:10 a.m. by fzebib
So, I'm "new" to magic in the sense that I am a returning player. I think I mostly dropped out of magic because of my time investment in MMO's. Regardless, I recently built up a collection again and spent a good amount of $ for modern+standard deck. I now decided it's time to "make back" my money via entering tournaments and, hopefully, winning.
I need your guidance/help as far as progressing and doing that. I honestly feel I have spent too much now and I refuse to spend anymore. That's just my own choice because I felt I "rushed" things just to get back into the game. I built an aristocrat deck. So far, I have entered 3~ tournies and have gotten absolutely smacked up.
I don't "completely" lose and a lot of my losses are "close". I will have full on discussions with the players and try to figure out if it was my fault. Some losses are with opponents sitting at 3 HP, etc. I even lost to a maze deck today. I thought it was a joke/free win when I was getting ready to play him. I got him low, but, between the 3 merciless evictions and supreme verdicts/fogs, etc. I lost. I was BAFFLED. I then lost to a green deck with huntmaster/thragtusk/olivia etc.
Any advice would be awesome. Is it a mixture of aristocrats being a little overplayed? Is it me? Let's hear some thoughts, thanks!
Whats your method of play testing? I dont mean to sound stupid but maybe there is a more efficient way of going about this. There's obviously no such thing as an always winning deck.. so what's the best route of trying to consistently coming out on top?
September 1, 2013 1:37 a.m.
beakedbard says... #4
I'd say enter a few FNM's simply because its cheap and if it runs well there quite a lot of times then enter a tourney if not edit your deck and try again. Unless of course you have none in your area then just playtest it online either here with magic online (although i doubt you want to due to the funds it costs) or with cockatrice which you should be able to find with google.
September 1, 2013 2:04 a.m.
The most important thing to consider if you're consistently losing is the metagame. If your deck is a poor choice for the meta, you are more likely to lose regardless of your skill level or card quality.
The second most important thing to consider is your card choices. If you're running a 75/75 netdeck, you should probably consider changing a couple of the cards in the list based on whatever you keep consistently losing to.
The third most important thing to consider if you're consistently losing is your skill level. If you have a great deck but are losing consistently in tournaments, you may need to consider getting more practice. Focus on knowing all the interactions in your own deck first, then start considering how your deck interacts with other strategies and specific cards. This will lead to more intuitive gameplay, letting you focus your mental energy on the deeper levels of the game, such as reading your opponent and concealing your strategy effectively.
September 1, 2013 3:47 a.m.
And specific to your deck listed on your profile, you're missing two of the core cards of the Aristocrats build, Blood Artist and Doomed Traveler . If your focus is on a human-based Aristocrats deck, you need both of these cards and also Xathrid Necromancer and Tragic Slip for your deck to have any competitive power.
September 1, 2013 3:50 a.m.
You're also missing Lingering Souls and Skirsdag High Priest , in addition to what Jimhawk said. Cartel Aristocrat and Boros Reckoner are also four-ofs, not three. Right now, you're just playing a RBW aggro deck, not the Aristocrats, which pumps out 5/5 demons each turn starting turn three or automatically kills you once there's two Blood Artist s out.
September 1, 2013 6:36 a.m.
notamardybum says... #8
aristocrats is a hard deck to play at times. There are things you need to remember, like blocking then sacraficing before damage is dealt to get a real bang for your buck. negate damage, and reap benefits from sacking/morbid effects.
also, aristocrats is more of a creature deck. siding out blasphemous act and dreadbore + that enchantment would be a good idea. I'd put in thatcher revolt and/or gather the townsfolk. I've seen aristocrats win solely with champion and a bunch of human tokens on turn 4.
doomed traveler is an absolute must, and i personally love skirsdag high priest.
4x Stromkirk Noble and Thraben Doomsayer aren't necessary, and are too slow for this type of deck.
Xathrid Necromancer is also a great addition to this deck thats from m14.
if you'd like take a look at my older build Hellbourne Aristocrats. this worked very very well for me. Hellrider worked wonders.
hope this all helps
September 1, 2013 6:38 a.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #9
Very few magic player get return on their investment.... That is why magic is a hobby. In most cast it is a money black hole. While trying to increase your skills and win tourney is a good thing, don't putyour hopes too high for the money.... Never forget that those other player in the tourney all put some time in playtest too and all shoot for the money, just like you...
September 1, 2013 9:33 a.m.
I'd have to say my playtest method works decently as it has been very rare for me to not make prizes in lower level tournaments (I probably need to get into triple digits of attending high REL tournaments, they are probably too warped in the win end due to the small sample).
You only need to keep up the heavy testing until all the bad is gone, though fnm level opponents don't seem to like it when I appear to look bored while narrowly beating them.
September 1, 2013 1:09 p.m.
All this really helped. That was just a test version of the aristocrats, I wasn't actually using it. The fact that I can't "return" my money via tournaments is actually kind of depressing. I know it's not a money maker because I could get a job and get the return much faster, but you get what I'm saying about making the money back via the game. Jim, could you explain more about the "metagame" a bit more? Sorry I don't have that much knowledge about that, I guess.
I was, however, blocking then saccing to get the full effect off and all. I'll post the aristocrat deck I am using I also would like to see some decks you guys would suggest to win some tournies. I refuse to believe I can't make a decent return on my investment via tournies! Anyway, if anyone would like to add me on skype. firas.zebib, thanks!
September 1, 2013 11:21 p.m.
I also felt like a lot of the guys were cheating. The way that guy shuffled through his gate cause of the whole guild gate/maze thing was mind blowing. And guys, when I say return on money I mean atleast not have me going out spending tons of money for future cards. My mind set was to buy aristocrats use that to win some packs, cards I don't need I would sell for money back. Maybe it was a foolish plan but a lot of these guys seem like they are making some money. Also, I'm sad that aristocrats will be cycles out soon. Don't know what I should do then :(
September 1, 2013 11:28 p.m.
I think the more properly sighted goal is to make playing magic into a slow bleed, with spikes as new sets come out, but it's best to keep in mind that it's a hobby - spending money for enjoyment is kind of the point. However, with good consistent play, a strong adaptable card pool and mindful trading/selling/buying; it doesn't have to be a money sink.
One thing to keep in mind based on some of your posts, usually the estimated value of a pack isn't worth it after the first several weeks. Don't chase rares and just take store credit if it's available.
September 1, 2013 11:46 p.m.
so i just looked at your deck... your synergy is off. your strategy is human based...whats the point of thraben / stromkirk?
They have no synergy with the rest of your deck. If you put blood artist and doomed traveler in those slots.... A) it would lower your mana curve. B) when your creatures die it would do damage to your opponents and gain life so you dont have to block / trade..... since you said you lose most often with them low on life....you would've won. C) it has much stronger synergy with your 2nd win con- blasphemous act D) couples amazingly with cartel aristocrat D) doomed traveler would create another body for you after removal, aftter sac to block with cartel or after your own blasphemous act so you keep the pressure on.
Thats why you're losing most of your close matches.
September 2, 2013 12:05 a.m.
Sorry guys that is NOT my current deck - I mentioned that but people are missing me mentioning it. I'll post my exact deck, now.
September 2, 2013 1:15 a.m.
It's up, now. I appreciate the tons of feedback so far guys. Seriously awesome.
September 2, 2013 1:24 a.m.
based on your current deck... i would remove 4x orzhov charms, resto angel, 2x silverblades, 2x zealous conscripts 1x boros reckoner and drop to 23 land (10slots)
consider adding something like 3x Gather the Townsfolk and 3x Xathrid Necromancer to keep with the human thing and creature generation. then if you want removal main board Tragic Slip , Brimstone Volley , Doom Blade . Something that wont do damage to you clearing the way. a mainboard 2x Blasphemous Act wouldn't hurt, since you could overflow board with creatures / tokens in this scenario and that would do a ton of damage between blood artist and reckoner
September 2, 2013 1:36 a.m.
im personally not a big fan of Skirsdag High Priest in aristocrats decks either b/c you usually can flood the board and put pressure on, the tapping 3 creatures after ones already died this turn is usually a senseless delay.
September 2, 2013 1:39 a.m.
interesting... anyone else have any opinions about this? Regardless, if I do the changes or not, would I be able to competitively play @ most tournies with this?
September 2, 2013 1:43 a.m.
if YOU were going to go play competitively what deck would YOU use and WHY? In comparison to the this deck, that is.
September 2, 2013 1:44 a.m.
My FNM is really competitive, typically 80-90 people. I play either American, Izzet control or naya midrange. I'm not a big fan of black in general, but a lot of people in my meta play goglari, jund, aristocrats. And necromancer , blood artist, voice in one deck is annoying and hard to play against. Will be even harder with terminus rotating
September 2, 2013 1:51 a.m.
fzebib Ah yes. Your current deck list is certainly not helping matters. A lot has changed since Tom Martell won the Pro Tour with that, sans the Blood Artist s you added.
Every other deck is drawing on and reacting to cards printed in both Dragon's Maze and M14, your list is months stale essentially. The "meta", ie the greater sense of what decks/cards/strategies are most being played, shifts as new cards are introduced and new decks are drawn up to combat existing staples. Just because a deck is well positioned at one point, doesn't mean it will be even the following week.
Those Pro Tour decks are also refined to an razor edge to combat decks they specifically expect to see, but that means they can be too specialized. Straight copying the 75 is rarely the right move, you'll often want to adjust the sideboard at least to suit the decks that you most often see.
Keeping up with the meta is certainly a part of doing well at tournaments. You need to know what the popular decks are, if you deck has good match ups against them and what your sideboard plan is. Just keeping an eye on sites like MTG Top 8 is a start. For instance, here's what the BRW aristocrats deck looks like now days.
September 2, 2013 2:30 a.m.
you guys are the best.. i'm going to double check everything tomorrow morning and get back to you, thanks guys...
Demarge says... #2
I would say spend the next 72 hours just playtesting, then rest a bit and playtest another good session, also only playtest your deck against other popular lists and only count the minutes after you've playtested with a deck for about 20 games... or you can attend every tournament nearby at every opportunity while keeping a decent playtesting daily practice of a few hours so you can develop a good playskill to win tournaments.
September 1, 2013 12:48 a.m.