non rev based control decks!
Standard forum
Posted on March 26, 2014, 12:24 a.m. by bigv54
I'm tired of this idea that every control deck must run sphinx's revelation or just not work. Let me see what you guys are running for a control list that proves that rev isn't the only answer!
Its not that there aren't other options, or that a deck won't work without it, its just that it's the best option out there. Its far better than any other draw spell currently in standard. Its totally understandable to avoid it due to cost issues, but if you're avoiding it just because you don't like it, you're just screwing yourself out of a good card. Any control deck will be better with Sphinx's Revelation in it.
March 26, 2014 12:41 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #4
There's a reason control decks run Rev. Control wins through card advantage, and Sphinx's is the best card for that in standard. Not running it is to build a subpar deck from the start.
Maybe build a midrange deck? I guess?
March 26, 2014 12:42 a.m.
it's less about rev being the only answer and rev being the best answer. you can use opportunity as a mini-rev, but you can't beat the lifegain that sphinx's affords you.
you could use any spell that granted you a hugish amount of life, but then you're losing out on the card advantage that rev gives.
the thing that makes Sphinx's Revelation the current end-all, be-all control card is that not only does it have these advantages, but it also is an instant. so there's a reason it gets run. i think we're just excited for the day it rotates out.
March 26, 2014 12:42 a.m.
It's a good card. You can choose to build a deck around not playing good cards if you want but that's called making a bad deck.
March 26, 2014 12:45 a.m.
It's also in the same colours as Supreme Verdict which is another very good card so theres no reason not to be playing it.
March 26, 2014 12:45 a.m.
I know that it wouldn't be strictly as good as a deck that runs it but one i don't want to play it due to cost and i just want to see if any of you have decks that utilize the control strategy without it. I've seen the bug list that has been going around but that just doesn't seem competitive
March 26, 2014 12:49 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #10
Yes and it's not competitive because it lacks Sphinx's Revelation lol
You're looking for a list that doesn't exist competitively.
March 26, 2014 12:51 a.m.
Well then i wait eagerly for the day it rotates out. In that case, what do you guys think the new control deck might be?
March 26, 2014 12:53 a.m.
I'm trying one with Debt to the Deathless for life gain and Whispering Madness to catch up on cards / piggy back off opponents Sphinx's Revelation in mirror. I just put it together so its still in for tweaking but I'm gonna try it out soon.
March 26, 2014 12:56 a.m.
notamardybum says... #13
Theres B/W "control" which is basically a ton of kill spells, Thoughtseize , Blood Baron of Vizkopa and Pack Rat .
You can build a R/B or R/B/W control deck
you can do R/W control, which is basically just a ton of burn spells and Chained to the Rocks
Sphinx's Revelation decks arent the only control decks, but they are the best, because Sphinx's Revelation is the best card. Take it from me, I would literally try every build out because of my disdain for Sphinx's Revelation ... then i basically sold my entire R/B/W deck to build my current esper deck.
I started with R/B control with Desecration Demon & Stormbreath Dragon as the only creature, then i moved to R/B/W because of the appeal of Blood Baron of Vizkopa , but these decks end up hurting yourself quite a bit in order to benefit, and I was tired of that. Ping myself for 1 to draw a card with Underworld Connections or 2 with Read the Bones . Opportunity never did it for me, and in a BUG build the only way to gain life was with Scavenging Ooze , and if you opponent didn't have a ton of creatures its a terrible card.
tl:dr version - Sphinx's Revelation isn't the only card to build around for a control deck, but it's the best card to build around. Theres no arguing. End of story.
If you dont want to play because of the cost, play R/W burn
March 26, 2014 2:29 a.m.
B/U/G is a totally viable control build; it has a lot of the better removal in standard, with Abrupt Decay , Far / Away . There are cards like Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze and Whip of Erebos to keep up on life gain, or even something like Bow of Nylea . Also considering Kiora's Follower exists in standard, there are a whole bunch of possibilities. A control deck doesn't have to be late-game of creatureless to work. Divination , Underworld Connections , and yes even Pain Seer all can serve as card-advantage engines here. And are we going to ignore the implications of planeswalkers here? Jace, Architect of Thought , Vraska the Unseen , Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Kiora, the Crashing Wave each have an incredible amount of utility in any midrange or control list. B/U/G right now is an understated threat, and can rack up some SERIOUS board presence with the 'walkers and Pack Rat and friends. There are so many other cards that can play control style.
Heck, there's even a Maze's End + Possibility Storm control* deck out there right now. Don't let yourself get down because you feel consigned to a certain card. It's possible to build any kind of deck with the right thought and effort.
Sphinx's Revelation might be really frickin' good, but you don't have to use it if you don't want to.
March 26, 2014 2:49 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #15
I'm not going to say that BUG control isn't competitive, but if you want to win, you don't want to play it.
There's a guy at my local shop that's devout to using it, and he gets 3rd place at best, usually losing out to UW control.
Also, at this most recent 5k that I went to, there were at least 20 people running BUG control / walkers. None of them made even top 64 out of 325 people. It's just not as competitive as UW (Considering that UW won the tourny, and there were 3 UWx decks in the top 16).
Now, don't let this get you all too down, but you've got to realise something here. If you want to beat everyone, and everyone is playing the best deck, you need to play the best deck. This is coming from a bunch of experience in the johnny scene, trying to beat top tier decks with my jank. It just doesn't work most of the time. If you want to avoid playing the best thing, but you still want to win, you can't just assume that a deck will be good. You have to look at the format, and find something that will beat what everyone else is playing, Right now, it is black based midrange or UW control. To beat either of these strategies, you need to be very quick, with the option to turn on some back burners and grind it out over a few more turns than you would like. That'd be why I made my deck, The Nightman Cometh.... It's black based aggro that is very quick out of the gate, yet can play the longer game against a midrange deck. It wins because A; the opponents aren't prepared for it, and B; because it's not just something that I thought would work. It's been tested for over a month now, every day. That's how deck building works. You have to test, and test a lot. You then need to take note of how the deck performed, and make changes based on that. You can't just pull a second rate list and expect it to win.
As for the question of what's going to be the next control list, Grixis? Bant? BUG? RUG? Mono Blue? Red / Green? It all really depends on what comes out in the next 3 sets. There's literally no way of knowing at this point.
March 26, 2014 9:11 a.m.
The Army of Nicol Bolas Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 3 | 18 COMMENTS | 1066 VIEWSGreat deck, works well. I run Opportunity and Inspiration as replacements for Sphinx's Revelation
March 26, 2014 12:02 p.m.
my deck is bug & it runs revs. opportunity is...cute but the life gain is CRUTIAL; as is the card advantage. caryatids and a few white sources allow me to hit my revs consistently without issue. ever. I've gone 3-1 nearly everytime I play & what I've found is that my deck is not getting out classed. grinding your opponent out and then rev for like 8 breaks their moral, so revs serve as life gain, card advantage & a confidence destroyer for them. those are all necessary in control.
one is always welcome to not run that card, but to find other cards that do the same thing just out of principle seems too personal. I'd reconsider your view on the card from an objective standpoint. perhaps it'll help.
March 28, 2014 6:52 a.m.
Here's a deck I built. BUG Superfriends Control. The name pretty much says it all. Strong control elements and lots of planeswalkers
March 30, 2014 9:10 p.m.
this threat still lives? hmmm
the master returns...again(FNM top4 shared 1st)
grixis control honor it.
April 5, 2014 2:04 p.m.
I hate to say it, trust me i do, but i broke down and bought the revelations.... i had a larger than expected pay check and decided to splurge. I still think there is a viable control deck possible without it but i think you guys are right in saying it is the better option. Anyone having luck without them, more power to you but this one is joining the crowd lol
ryuzaki32667 says... #2
My dega deck, it's basically a rwb good stuff deck, with tons of answers and better treats
March 26, 2014 12:40 a.m.