Oko is problematic
Standard forum
Posted on Nov. 3, 2019, 7:39 p.m. by Fellin22
In case you don’t play standard, don’t start playing now because of a card that begins and ends with an O, has a K in the middle. This plansewalker is making simic sometimes with one supporting color absolutely broken, to the point where people are mainboarding mystical dispute and noxious grasp.
BAN OKO
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #3
TypicalTimmy They still get to elk something. Even if you run removal and use removal every single time they drop an Oko, they get to elk something before you can. You've still 2-for-1'd yourself in the best case scenario.
November 4, 2019 12:41 a.m.
@ TypicalTimmy The reason Oko is a high leverage play in most situations is because he isn't able to be dealt with by most cheap removal spells and limiting the efficient means of interacting with such a threat to just counterspells means that the decks that can best defeat an Oko line of play will tend to be other Oko decks. The 4 loyalty base and tick up to 5 or 6 is huge because it takes Oko out of range of most damage oriented removal spells that are actually able to be run in a deck in competitive settings. He then has choices that are powerful: protect himself by turning a useless piece of junk into a permanent 3/3 (like food tokens, Gilded Geese, or Astrolables) generating additional value from the target that becomes an Elk, potentially disabling a critical threat an opponent has and turning it into a threat that any Lightning Bolt effect is capable of removing from the board, or generating life gain that slows the clock on fast aggressive strategies and running them out of gas very quickly (as you can't afford to spend that gas on killing Oko which usually takes 2 cards, or on trying to race the Oko life gain which usually negates 1 card per turn). Oko is a planeswalker that generates oodles of card advantage in probably the least direct possible means ever for any planeswalker that has been printed in the history of MTG.
The weakness is that he has to stick around to put in work and this is where the base loyalty being so high is turning him into a card that is relevant in pretty much every format. He probably should have been printed with a base loyalty of 3 at the most, or possibly 2.
November 4, 2019 12:44 a.m.
It is not Oko that is problematic, but planeswalkers themselves. They have two states of power level and nothing in between: problematic and lacking any impact.
Oko came out in a set with another 3 mana, 2 color, high starting loyalty planeswalker that only pluses into an ultimate ( The Royal Scions ). No decks feature the twins. 70% of decks currently feature Oko. Neither is the third planeswalker in this set (garruk) featured in a top standard deck.
Out of 37 planeswalkers in WAR, exactly 2 are played with any regularity in standard - Narset and Teferi. Most others are not worth their salt.
If the cream of the planeswalker crop is infuriating to play against and the rest are not worth the cardboard they are printed on, how is this a good card type?
November 4, 2019 10:13 a.m.
SynergyBuild says... #6
Nissa is insanely massive in Standard dude. Domri is big in gruul as well, which has been relatively a consistent deck in the metagame, whether or not it was the best. Liliana sees some play, but similar in nature to Garruk for that part.
I can think of those immediately, making at least 4 played regularly in standard, not counting lili.
November 4, 2019 3:41 p.m.
Oh yes, i forgot Nissa, the finisher in the Oko decks. That is one more card. However, Nissa exacerbates the issue - it is the best thing you can do in green decks for a top end, so in she goes - Vivien, Arkbow Ranger is plenty good herself, but Nissa has stomped the competition.
So, there are 65 planeswalkers in standard, or 50 without the new player ones. With those 4 synergy build added, we have a total of 7 out of 50, a whole 14%.
While this has been festering as an opinion of my own, John Finkel recently tweeted:
"People think Oko or Teferi are the problem, but really they're a symptom of the problem. The problem is that Planeswalkers made Magic into a worse game. They're usually either boring or game warping."
I could not have said it better.
November 5, 2019 4:16 a.m.
BlackSirius says... #8
It really sucks because I just finished my first ever standard deck, and I'm being told to not even bother teying to play it. Thats very disheartening to hear.
November 5, 2019 6:05 a.m.
BlackSirius building your own competitive brews in Standard is a long, difficult row to hoe.
It takes enormous amounts of time and money.
You not only have to test your build against both the top tier decks in Standard, and the top tier decks in your local meta, you have to know every deck inside and out, and how you need to Sideboard and change your play style against it.
I would never say don't learn how to build in Standard. I did it for years and enjoyed it. I just say you should be prepared for a lot of heart ache.
What terminated the fun for me was how narrow the FNM field became.
There werr only two or three types of decks being played.
I could build to beat them, but why keep playing when you already know how the match will turn out within the first two turns of the first game?
If I had my time again I would stick to casual Magic, which is what I mostly play now.
It's cheaper, and more fun to muck around with underpowered decks like Planeswalker Decks, when you are learning how to play.
You do need a friend to do this, but you can usually convince someone you know to learn Magic.
If you want a better challenge, you move from that to Duel Decks, which you can still grab online.
If building is your bag, learn how to Draft.
Commander Precons are another way forward, and you can tweak these to scratch that building itch. Most LGS have a Commander group, although some are more competitive than others.
It seems that Pioneer might be another way forward, but we don't yet know how popular it will become, or just how expensive.
Or how solvable. We've already seen the first bans hit the Felidar Guardian + Saheeli Rai four colour combo decks.
I love playing Magic the Gathering but the competitive scene does have issues of pay to win, and lack of diversity.
November 5, 2019 8:32 a.m.
wotanaz1337 says... #11
I got back into playing in October. It was like this years ago. There weren't any Planeswalkers but standard was dominated by the same few decks.
You have to spend money to win. WOTC won't ever change that. They've built an empire off that model. They thrive on Spikes dropping hundreds or even thousands.
It's not 'evil' of them to do it. They're a business and a successful one. They exist to make a profit. But I digress.
If we choose to play standard we have two choices. We feed the cash cow and play the successful arch-types. Or we accept that the occasional win may come our way on a good night.
Or the third option of EDH, Modern/Pioneer and Limited.
November 5, 2019 3:34 p.m.
wotanaz1337 says... #12
I feel your pain. I threw together a half-decent white weenie/life gain deck. Only to then have it get shredded by the meta. It was at that point I decided to just focus on having fun.
That and not spending a ton of money. If I can beat a meta-crusher with my $30.00 budget/junk deck 1/3 times in a round I take pride. It's fun to watch uncommons and commons ping away.
November 5, 2019 3:41 p.m.
BlackSirius says... #13
wotanaz1337 my deck Angelic Gift of Grace was my first ever legit standard deck based on the life gain idea.
I remember everyone saying "you want to be in standard? Then find two cards you like and brew up a deck", and I was so excited when Bishop of Wings and Corpse Knight came across my path. I just so happened to own two misprinted Corpse Knight this was a little cherry on top.
To be apart of standard was a big a deal for me; definitely since I've been playing magic for a little over a year and spent just over 2k on the hobby to build my collection. Just sucks to not be apart of something and still can't spend enough to play it.
November 5, 2019 5:05 p.m.
@ BlackSirius Find a LGS and attend limited tournaments. This is the absolute best way to accrue a collection while having fun and without spending a ton of cash to do it. Drafting also will greatly improve your overall skills as a player and deck builder. I play limited more than any other format and have for nearly 25 years. I never really buy single cards for standard or any other format as I've never really had to. Just playing every weekend or every other weekend was enough to amass a collection of cards from Beta on worth well over the cost of a house and that generally will include any card I could ever want to play in any format.
November 5, 2019 5:18 p.m.
BlackSirius says... #15
jaymc1130 Drafting, based off of what you've told me, sounds like something I can get behind. It also would give me more chances to get out of the house. I don't really understand the concept of limited though.
Gidgetimer says... #2
Apparently Oko is seeing play to problematic levels in modern, legacy, and vintage too. I have heard some people very knowledgeable about card power across formats say that Oko is the most powerful planeswalker ever printed. With competition like Lilly of the veil and Jace, the Car Payment that is quite a statement.
November 3, 2019 8:38 p.m.