Pain Seer over Pack Rat for MBD
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 31, 2014, 12:31 a.m. by Trublood
With the new set around the corner I am thinking of replacing Pack Rat for Pain Seer for the 2 cmc creature. While pack rat can be a wincon on its own I feel pain seer would be more useful in more situations. Anyone else considering this swap for their MBD deck?
The Doctor says... #3
Nope. Pain Seer really isn't that good. Honestly, I'd consider it on the same level as Blood Scrivener , which see's no play.
January 31, 2014 12:45 a.m.
Maybe, the problem is the only way to utilize him is to attack
January 31, 2014 12:50 a.m.
The Doctor says... #5
There is no point of getting rid of a win-con for a card that MIGHT make you draw into another one.
January 31, 2014 12:56 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #6
I suppose he might be good as a 1 or 2 of in a sideboard for control match up. they often have few to no creatures, so you can reliably attack each turn. plus, out drawing your control opponent is one of the best ways to beat them. I think he will see more play after ravnica rotates out
January 31, 2014 1 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #7
It could be a great sideboard replacement for the Rat against control, which kills the Rat with Detention Sphere and Supreme Verdict , and doesn't have early-game blockers to stop Pain Seer from attacking. However, since nothing else in the deck can get Pain Seer to tap without attacking, it's probably going to be limited to being a glorified Grizzly Bears in most other matchups.
January 31, 2014 1:15 a.m.
Unless you're already running 4 Underworld Connections and still want more card draw, there's really no reason to run Pain Seer . He just isn't that good. Especially in MBD where you'll have high cmc creatures like Gary, Demon, Erebos, etc.
January 31, 2014 1:19 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #9
Pain Seer is a bad card.
You play it. Wait a turn. Attack with it (Hopefully). Wait a turn. THEN draw one card.
God forbid it gets killed, even worse Azorius Charm'ed. It's just bad.
Pack Rat, on the other hand, can literally win most of the games in which you drop it on turn two.
January 31, 2014 2:09 a.m.
The way I see it, not even an option. Considering MBD is the most popular deck, you're going to play the mirror a lot. Swapping Pain Seer for Pack Rat takes a reasonably 50/50 match-up and puts you firmly under-favored. Like 10/90 bad.
A vanilla 2/2 that needs to attack into MUD, GW, WWx and GR sounds pretty awful too. So you're replacing a card that sees good play against every other deck in the format to maybe bump your UWx match-up 5-10%.
Nope.
January 31, 2014 6:07 a.m.
Its just a bad card in the MBD deck. There's to many spells with a high CMC in it. Personally, if someone was playing against me in the way you described, I would gladly let them keep their pain seer and attack with it every turn and just let them kill themself.
Pain seer would only really work in a deck with low CMC on everything, that attempts to go under every other deck. Like the Orzhov aggro lists that are white wheenie decks with that necromancer. It would go great in that deck, because its like 16 1 drops, 16 2 drops, 8 3 drops, and very aggressive. Most opponents wont even be online and dealing damage to you before you win, so the life lost there wont matter, and it wont be that much when you hit your spells and draw them.
January 31, 2014 8:55 a.m.
The reason Pack Rat is used in MBD is because the tokens are copies of the original. As such, not only are you getting bigger and bigger creatures, but you are also increasing your devotion because they each provide 1 devotion to black.
This is something that Pain Seer does not do. Even if you manage to efficiently gain card advantage, it won't compare to the devotion increase provided by Pack Rat .
January 31, 2014 9:06 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #13
While I think Pain Seer is much better than the credit it's currently getting and will see competitive play, I have to agree that Pack Rat is strictly better in that deck.
January 31, 2014 10 a.m.
It's pretty much a bad card when it's not in a combo deck that can abuse it.
January 31, 2014 12:26 p.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #15
I was surprised anyone thought that card was going to be good. Pain Seer
January 31, 2014 12:38 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #16
@ChiefBell I don't think it's as bad as people say. It's a black card. Black is known for utilizing tons of removal. There will be plenty of opportunity to tap it safely.
January 31, 2014 12:54 p.m.
The Doctor says... #18
I was bewildered when people were considering that it could even be better then Dark Confidant .
Epochalyptik says... #2
The Q&A is for rules questions. Moved to Standard.
January 31, 2014 12:41 a.m.