Radiant flames or kozileks return
Standard forum
Posted on May 12, 2016, 8:52 a.m. by Uzumaki1
In a deck running 3-4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers is it worth running Kozilek's Return over Radiant Flames ?
Depends on the deck that you're talking about. If the deck has 3 different colors, or at least can produce 3 different colors, than I feel Radiant Flames is much better. Kozilek's Return doesn't usually get the job completely done later in the game and is, in my opinion, a worse top deck board wipe than Radiant Flames. By that, I mean top decking Radiant Flames is usually better than top decking Kozilek's Return when you need a board wipe.
Kozilek's Return should probably only be played in decks that only have 2 colors or run some Eldrazi so that they can get the graveyard effect off of Radiant Flames.
If you're running Goblin Dark-Dwellers; you're probably running enough spot removal that can 1 for 1 or even 2 for 1 (like Kolaghan's Command) that you can hold off on board wipes and not have to worry about recasting Kozilek's Return with its ability, thus Radiant Flames is probably still superior. The Instant speed isn't much at all I think since it's comparing 2 damage to 3.
May 12, 2016 8:58 a.m.
Ej1997: Yes. Goblin Dark-Dwellers will cause Radiant Flames to deal 0 damage. But I still believe Radiant Flames is the better option if you have access to 3 different colors.
May 12, 2016 8:59 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #5
It's merely a preference. Decks that run GDD still run copies of both Read the Bones and Painful Truths. I prefer Radiant Flames in a 3 color deck merely because it's 3 damage and not 2 and I couldn't care less if GDD doesn't get to "flash it back". It did its job. In a 2 color deck, K Return hands down.
May 12, 2016 11:04 a.m.
In standard, it's crucial that you hit 3 toughness on a wipe since pretty much everything in Bant CoCo plus a ton of other stuff survives 2 damage. Krasis, Reflector, a tracker with a counter, Krallenhorde Howler, Advocate pre-6 lands, Catacomb Sifter, Vile Redeemer, Eldrazi Displacer, etc. Even if you can't flash it back, there's still need for the 3rd point of damage.
May 12, 2016 11:08 a.m.
As stated above it comes down to what your local meta looks like, and what you need the card to do.
Radiant Flames is great if you need to be able to control it to choose 1-3 damage at Sorcery speed, Kozilek's Return is great if you need to do up to 2 damage at Instant speed.
May 12, 2016 4:36 p.m.
Not so much local meta I care about it's more wider.
Currently I'm on Jund and I'm running 2 return and a flying tendril (exile can be relevant) with one return main and the others in the board. But yeah only hitting for 2 isn't great. Whilst being able to return it with dark dwellers against the decks that rebuild easily, and the instant is relevant against secure the wastes, I'll probably go with the general consensus of radiant flames. (Still playing read the bones over truths though).
May 12, 2016 5:32 p.m.
I should have also added that we initially started with the Flames in my partner's deck, but eventually replaced it with Return.
The Instant speed proved to be essential, and there's still lots to hit that is */2.
Ej1997 says... #2
I'd say yes seeing how you're not paying radiant flames mana cost therefore you're hitting everything for 0? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's how that works
May 12, 2016 8:58 a.m.