Ratchet Bomb in the current standard meta.
Standard forum
Posted on Aug. 6, 2013, 4:52 a.m. by seevers35
I noticed that many UWR Flash decks ran 1-3 Ratchet Bomb s in their sideboard.
Please answer the follow question only if you think you really understand the current meta. I am not looking for speculation, but a concrete answer.
What threats are pros trying to fight by boarding in Ratchet Bomb ?
RussischerZar says... #4
Usually it's sided in against aggro decks since they have a lot of similarly costed creatures.
August 6, 2013 5:06 a.m.
Ratchet Bomb at 0 also kills flipped Ravager of the Fells Flip and the Wolf token that Huntmaster produced. Not an insubstantial upside.
August 6, 2013 5:23 a.m.
KnightsBattlecry001 says... #7
Tokens, Plainswalkers, aggro since most walkers are around the same cost as well as the creatures in aggro decks. Tokens it's great against, because play it, tap it, field wipe for your opponent's field the turn it comes out. It can answer any threat that a permanent pretty much, and cheap to throw down.
August 6, 2013 5:54 a.m.
It is most specifically targeted at the Monogreen/GW Craterhoof ramp deck that has come up recently. That deck is crippled by Supreme Verdict
, but on the draw, UWR can use Ratchet Bomb
to wipe all their mana dorks on turn 3 instead of turn 4, sometimes preventing a lethal attack.
The fact that it is also good against Burning-Tree Emissary and token-heavy decks is additional upside.
August 6, 2013 6:11 a.m.
SO many cards in aggro are 2 cmc. Burning Tree, Mauler, Imposing Sovereign, Knights, Strangleroot Geist, Voice, etc. Ratchet bomb is essencially a board wipe against these cards. Then, the rest of the midrange decks play a huge amount of 4 drops. Olivia, Garruk Relentless, Huntmaster, Restoration angel, etc. Even though supreme verdict is better against these creatures, Ratchet bomb can be a back up plan. FInally, in the really late game it can help protect you against THundermaw Hellkites and Garruk Primal hunters, as well as opposing Jace's
August 6, 2013 10:18 a.m.
Ratchet Bomb was used in standard formats where it was all about resolving titans and other 6 cmc spells because it was good at it's job, in fact if you notice some lists have been actually running a couple mainboard. If the card was good when people wanted to resolve expensive spells that were all over the curve, then it's even better when most of the good stuff is at 3 or less. (my half asleep rant, mostly just wanted to speak up for the bomb a bit before the thread gets buried)
August 6, 2013 10:37 a.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #11
Every response here so far is wrong. Most Control decks don't kill you with aggro until late game when they have a handful of cards and you are on draw with nothing in hand. Ratchet Bomb is an effective tool to remove early aggro threats and stop blitzing effect decks like but not limited to R/G aggro. It has little or not dampening effect on controls spell casting or early game. It can be used by aggro but usually mid-range. @Dritz Huntmaster dosn't lose his converted mana cost when he transforms so a ratchet bomb for 0 dose nothing to him nor dose he lose his colors G/R as a permanent. Look it up.
August 6, 2013 12:47 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #12
Ratchet Bomb can also destroy anoying artifacts and enchantments as well as early aggressive aggro.
August 6, 2013 12:49 p.m.
SevenSeasAgo says... #13
@RedCloud2012, actually, flip cards do have a CMC of 0. So yes, Ratchet Bomb can take out any transformed card.
August 6, 2013 12:52 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #15
@Ringleader actually they dont check the Oracle before making judgement based on what you think the rules should be.
August 6, 2013 1:01 p.m.
The official wizards Double Faced cards rules primer.
The paragraph that refutes your statement, RedCloud2012:
"The back face of a double-faced card is marked with a moon symbol, lacks a mana cost, and has a color indicatorthat's the dot on its type linethat tells you what color it is. The two faces of a double-faced card are often the same color, but not always. The back face's characteristics matter only if the card is on the battlefield and its back face is showing. Otherwise, only the front face's characteristics count. (For example, Gatstaf Shepherd's converted mana cost when it's in your deck is 2, not zero.)"
August 6, 2013 1:07 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #17
The flip side of a flip card dosn't have a converted mana cost on that side because its still the same permanent and cant be cast as the flip side but it retains the cards cmc just the same. In response to the rest of your statement I am aware of the moon and would also denote cards color are also refferanced by its borders. I was already aware of the color ruling and it has nothing to do with our arguement. @Dritz
August 6, 2013 1:19 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #18
E.g I didn't say why huntmaster retains his colors in my comment so I wasnt mistaken about anything.
August 6, 2013 1:22 p.m.
711.2b While a double-faced permanent's back face is up, it has only the characteristics of its back face. The back face doesn't have a mana cost; it has the colors in its color indicator (see rule 202.2e), if any.
Just for the record, "doesn't have a mana cost" means "zero".
I'd say "look it up" like you did, but now you don't have to.
August 6, 2013 1:30 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #20
The only time a transformed card's characteristics matter are when it's on the battlefield and transformed. They have a CMC of 0 when they are transformed otherwise they have the CMC on the front side. (when checking cards in graveyard, deck, etc).
The Ratchet Bomb ruling for a transformed card DOES kill it when counters = 0
Someone has already answered this question on Tapped out here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-questions/ratchet-bomb-and-transformed-cards/
Sorry, don't know how to put the link in or else I would do it
August 6, 2013 1:33 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #21
@ Dritz perhaps you should read Transforming and ask the oracle if a flip card has a cmc once fliped. The stament you wanted me to read was mearly describing what the reverse side of a flip card looks like saying no mana cost appears on that side....not to state that the card no longer has a cmc as a rule.
August 6, 2013 1:35 p.m.
202.3a The converted mana cost of an object with no mana cost is 0.
August 6, 2013 1:37 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #23
And to answer the main question of why Ratchet Bomb was making it into main deck lists was because of cards like Burning Earth . Ratchet Bomb would most likely be already on the field (or at the worse cost 2 life to cast) and can be ticked up to 4 to remove it. On top of that it can be used to "board wipe" a turn or 2 early against aggro (Naya Blitz especially) It also escapes cards like Sin Collector and Appetite for Brains quite nicely
Enchantment destruction is not a common card in R/B/W lists or Grixis (as most "removal" is in Green).
If they didn't counter it when it was cast they wanted an answer to it that may even be already on the field
August 6, 2013 1:42 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #24
I retract this ruling was originally the card mearly transforms but is still the same permanent so Cmc is not changed and also why equipment and enchantments dont fall off. Shortly thereafter was a ruling that the flipside has no cmc so while on that side the card has no cmc. If you read transform as a mechanic that makes no sence to me. I was wrong but I think they are goofy with this ruling.
August 6, 2013 1:54 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #25
If these cards were printed like fuse cards and the ravenger side had no cost but the huntmaster side was still visible would we have a different ruling. Because it appears they were only flips because of space saving.
August 6, 2013 2 p.m.
I do agree that it's an inconsistency. The reason why isn't because of split cards though, it's because of Kamigawa flip cards. When flipped, they also do not have a mana cost in their upper right corner (it's now in the lower left), but they're still assigned the same CMC as though they were unflipped.
Anyway, back to the original topic, I have to concur that Ratchet Bomb is a lot better than it was the first time around, since so much that is good in Standard right now is three mana or less. It wasn't just the titans back then (because who could withstand one long enough to tick their Bomb up to 6?), but there was a lot of other great stuff with high CMC's. Nowadays it's Olivia Voldaren , half of Thragtusk , and whatever Reanimator is playing this week.
I don't know that this will last though. We're supposed to be coming up on a block based on gods and heroes, right?
August 6, 2013 2:09 p.m.
"The converted mana cost of a permanent is determined solely by the mana symbols printed in its upper right corner, unless it's copying something else (see below). The converted mana cost is the total amount of mana in that cost, regardless of color. For example, a card with mana cost 3UU has converted mana cost 5."
"If a nonland permanent has no mana symbols in its upper right corner (because it's a token that's not copying something else, for example), its converted mana cost is 0."
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370623
(I dont know how to post links, derp.)
August 6, 2013 2:33 p.m.
CaveShinobi says... #28
@RedCloud2012 Read this http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Transform.
Just as a heads-up, but when more than one people tell you you're understanding a mechanic wrong, I'd try to reconsider before making a rebuttal. And if the flipped card ignores every characteristic of the front, then it also means it won't have CMC (since it doesn't have a mana cost, after all). Remember that CMC just means Converted Mana Cost, which is just a way to transform all those symbols in one solid number. No mana symbols in the corner, no mana cost, no CMC unless specified otherwise in the text box.
August 6, 2013 2:48 p.m.
CaveShinobi says... #29
Oh, didn't notice there was a second page. My bad, then. What I typed still stands, but it's pretty much irrelevant, now. Nevermind it...
August 6, 2013 2:52 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #30
Ratchet Bomb has always been good...people just didn't know how/when to use it :)
I used it as a pseudo way to remove Delver of Secrets Flip or the equipment (since CMC =3 destroyed swords, Oblivion Ring , etc) and could be recurred with Sun Titan .
Speaking of which, since Ratchet Bomb came back I miss Sun Titan .... Venser, the Sojourner is crying for me to finish my modern deck using them again :)
August 6, 2013 3:40 p.m.
epicsnailman says... #31
Selesnya aggro has been doing really well lately, and the bomb can kill all tokens at 0 counters. it deals with cards like:
Armada Wurm s token friend
Hope that helps.
August 6, 2013 9:04 p.m.
all tokens are 0cmc as is flipped huntmaster, flipped garruk relentless, so its a 2cmc board wipe v token decks.
TurboFagoot says... #2
I'm not too-too up to date on the meta, but it can hit Bant Hexproof's Hexproof guys, and there's also some Junk or B/W token lists running around that Bomb excels against.
August 6, 2013 4:57 a.m.