Ravnica block rotating thoughts
Standard forum
Posted on Feb. 17, 2014, 3:17 a.m. by TrystonSpencer
Okay so later this year as many of us know ravnica is rotating out and honestly I don't see the potential in theros I feel like we are losing too much we are trading abilities such as evolve and populate for inspired and heroic. Im not saying that the cards from theros are bad but I just dont see potential in anything except white. Right now in ravnica every single multi colored thing is a different guild so a different playstyle and I think that is important for the game dynamics but with theros I dont really see the multicolored except maybe minotaurs and gorgons but I just dont feel like they have thus far made enough playable cards. This is just my opinion, what do you guys think?
It's still so far away, if anything sell off things over the summer before the reality of rotation sets in, lots of great cards still have plenty of time to see run, Mutavault and Archangel of Thune as well as Jace, Architect of Thought so many current standard staples are part of the RTR block cycle and they all still have plenty of time to be owned and run in the coming months between now mid February and 8 months from now later this year in the Fall, not to mention Two more sets will be released before Roto even occurs, Journey into Nyx and then M15 will round off this standard season bringing us to the maximum amount of sets allowed at one time, arguably the best time to play standard as there are so many different archetypes and variations on those archetypes, all culminating in the rotation. It's a pretty fun cycle if you know how to navigate it properly.
February 17, 2014 3:39 a.m.
guess what, after rotation I bet you don't call them unplayable any more because you won't have any other options to choose from. Standard changes literally every rotation, this is not something new. And yes, every few sets they have to dial it back on the power level some because if the power of cards continued to rise with every set eventually we'd reach a point where the newest sets are just so powerful that they eliminate the need for the older cards because of how weak they would all eventually become in comparison to the new stuff. The colors and color pairs are still going to have their normal characteristics, always have and always will, that won't change. You just have to learn to adapt as the meta changes and not compare everything to the current standard block or even the one before this. Just because it is still the Standard format means nothing, they're completely different sets and of course will produce different kinds of decks, especially after rotation and the focus is more on Theros.
February 17, 2014 3:54 a.m.
Nigrescence says... #5
Control decks will nearly die off unless JOU and M15 gives us something decent.
February 17, 2014 4:50 a.m.
@Nigrescence, I'm not sure. Control will still have some quality shit, especially black removal
February 17, 2014 5:39 a.m.
People keep saying "Oh control will die". We have yet to see that be true.
February 17, 2014 7:16 a.m.
yeah, if you think about Greek mythology there are Titans that still havent been printed, unless they reprint the already in existence, an also the god that created everything....Chronos equivalent has not been printed still as well as Era, Demi-Gods and half-gods, of course it will be a slower meta but still looks ok for me, in personal Ravnica blocks specially this 2nd part has been MTG climax ive been just following magic untill Ravnica came out again
February 17, 2014 8:36 a.m.
Hootiequack says... #9
I'm actually excited for rotation for a few reasons. Partially, (and selfishly) I just started back during Theros, so my RTR block cards are lacking. And though this sounds a bit counter intuitive, I think it will allow more flexibility in dual color decks. While its not true in all the pairings, the guilds tend to put you into specific decks when building with two colors. Having cards that aren't made specifically to fit a theme or guild ability can let you find more ways to mix and match cards. But I also like messing with less-than-conventional mixtures often and am not just looking for the deck that is going to dominate the meta. So my opinion likely differs from most.
February 17, 2014 9:15 a.m.
Nigrescence says... #10
"Control will still have some quality shit, especially black removal"
Sure it will, but not enough to compete with the hyper-aggressive stuff that we have out there. Again, this is without knowing what will be in JOU or M15, so it's definitely too early to say for sure that it's going down, but the situation looks pretty grim.
February 17, 2014 10:26 a.m.
Keep onto your Polis Crusher s, they will become a staple in red green. Also, look out for Herald of Torment . Throw away all your Chained to the Rocks .
As for ravnica keepers, Sphinx's Revelation and Supreme Verdict are frequently used in modern, so don't sell those. Get a playset Voice of Resurgence before it stacks out of reach.
Oh, and Young Pyromancer ! That card has the potencial of going to Kitchen Finks pricetags.
February 17, 2014 10:27 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #12
"Keep onto your Polis Crusher s, they will become a staple in red green"
Why? They have a lot of competition for their spot, and the only enchantment creatures being used in constructed play, for the most part are indestructible.
February 17, 2014 11:31 a.m.
What competition exactly? The monstrous deck wants 6-8 fourdrop creatures, including a playset Polukranos. What else do you play? Ember Swallower ? Flame-Wreathed Phoenix ?
After rotation, it's on curve, kills Herald of Torment and is relevant as a 7/7 Trampler, which might be better than Ember Swallower. Also, chances are real for a lot of enchantments in Theros Standard. At worst, you can safely block a god each turn.
And no comment about Flame Wreathed Phoenix, that card is garbage.
February 17, 2014 12:12 p.m.
The thing I'll be most sad to see go will be slivers. Other than that the cards feel mostly the same and fit into most playstyles.
There's always the quirky cards that go missing but other than that it's good. 90% of most card packs tend to be crap irregardless unless you're just starting off with them.People don't need 200 Frost Breath .
I want personally more cards giving different win conditions, i.e Battle of Wits or Azor's Elocutors because that tends to make building around it fun.
To be honest the different abilities seem sort of guild like but there's more option of moving them around without them being set in certain colors.Tribute seems like a red and green focused mechanic. Scry seems blue focused, Heroic seems white focused. Inspired seems to be black/blue, etc.
February 17, 2014 12:55 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #15
Think about this: We will lose 4 sets after rotation (RTR block plus M14). But we'll also have gained 3 sets: Journey Into Nyx, M15, and the first set of the next block. That means there will be ~650 new cards to work with, something like 8 more Planeswalkers, etc. So calm your tits, there will be plenty of good stuff between now and rotation.
And who knows; some of the new cards or archetypes may make cards that are currently unplayable into all-stars. For example, how many decks did you see running Frostburn Weird or Nightveil Specter before Theros came out?
February 18, 2014 4:13 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #16
@TexasDice You really think people will play it over Polukranos, World Eater ?
February 18, 2014 4:35 a.m.
@Schuesseled: Block formats are generally good indicators of what to expect after a rotation. Last format in Return to Ravnica, we saw a lot of U/W Control and Jund. In both cases, RtR Block Constructed predicted Desecration Demon and Sphinx's Revelation dominating the Standard once Innistrad rotated out. Sure enough, U/W Control and Mono-Black Devotion with Desecration Demon s popped up.
Decks in Theros Block Constructed aren't cutting out Polukranos, World Eater for Polis Crusher : they're using as many as four copies of both. In addition, they're also playing Nylea, God of the Hunt AND Xenagos, The Reveler . Gruul and Naya Midrange are very real contenders for being the top decks of next format.
The key thing is that only having access to dual lands that come into play tapped means you either play a mono-color deck or a deck with with lots of scry lands and up your curve. This is especially considering we might lose a one-drop mana dork in the next format when Elvish Mystic cycles out. That leaves only Voyaging Satyr and Sylvan Caryatid in the format, so playing one of those on turn two and making up for the scry land on turn one by dropping in a 4 CMC permanent is crucial.
Granted, block formats aren't always indicative of Standard. Rebels in Mercadian Masques weren't nearly as good in Standard, let alone ban-worthy, as they were in Block. Likewise, Lingering Souls was good in Standard but didn't dominate the way it did during Innistrad.
February 18, 2014 5:38 a.m.
@Schuesseled: No, but I think people will play it alongside Polly.
February 18, 2014 6:06 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #19
Every other 4 drop better than polly. Simple fact. Ember Swallower is debatable, but i dont see my a midrange deck would run that cyclops when there is xenagos or nylea of the phoenix (who i have mentioned because it is good) that can be played instead.
February 18, 2014 8:20 a.m.
@Schuesseled: Dream a little bigger, darling. Polis Crusher could be a key part of Gruul Midrange and I wouldn't be surprised to see a list looking something like:
24x Lands
4x Voyaging Satyr 4x Sylvan Caryatid 4x Polukranos, World Eater 4x Stormbreath Dragon 2x Polis Crusher 2x Nylea, God of the Hunt 3x Ember Swallower ----------------------------------------------------------23 Creatures
4x Xenagos, The Reveler 9x removal/ramp/etc.----------------------------------------------------------13 Other Spells
February 18, 2014 8:42 a.m.
One could replace Nylea with Xenagos, but this seems playable.
February 18, 2014 2:30 p.m.
@Schuesseled: You have to consider how many people's lands come into play tapped. Unless the format speeds up next rotation, that many four-drops is fine because of what scry lands do to people's curves.
I really should just link to Theros Block Constructed events on Daily MtG.
A lot of the 4-0 decks playing G/R/x Midrange have between 16 and 20 4/5/6-drops. Scry lands really slow a format down. Most of the plays are:
Turn one: Temple of Abandon Turn two: Plains , Voyaging Satyr Turn three: Forest , four-drop
But I could be wrong. Jund Midrange dominated RtR Block Constructed for months, but we haven't seen it at all in Standard since Innistrad rotated out.
February 18, 2014 6:50 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #24
I'll agree that the format is a bit slow right now, but G/R monsters will lose half of it's mana dorks. (right now using elvish mystic and sylvan caratyd), unless we get a replacement for elvish mystic, running high numbers of 4/5/6 drops will be detrimental. And could be even if they did.
Scry lands suck, we'll get something better m15 or the next set, i.e. the meta won't continue to slow.
February 18, 2014 7:20 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #25
I have a hard time believing that they won't have a Green one-drop dork in M15. When was the last time they didn't print one in a core set? M14 had Elvish Mystic , M13 had Arbor Elf , and Llanowar Elves was in every set from 9th Edition to M12. Birds of Paradise was in every core set from 5th Edition to M12 except for 9th Edition. It would be a true shocker if M15 doesn't have one.
February 18, 2014 10:04 p.m.
We also had Nature's Lore , Rampant Growth , Sakura-Tribe Elder , and/or Farseek in every Standard from 5th. Edition to M13, then they cut it from M14.
Wouldn't be the first time WotC decided not to include a staple. Stone Rain was in every format from Alpha to Kamigawa, then R&D said land destruction was too powerful for what they wanted in Standard.
They could very well decide a one-drop mana dork with no drawbacks is too powerful for what they want to exist in Standard.
February 18, 2014 11:36 p.m.
"...Scry lands suck..."
That joke is even better than "...phoenix (who i have mentioned because it is good)..."
February 19, 2014 8:01 p.m.
Scry lands do suck. There just aren't any alternatives lol. They're unplayable outside of Standard.
February 19, 2014 8:31 p.m.
If the whole idea with the theros block was to slow the standard format down and change it up from what it had been, going from multicolored to devotion based decks. Then I would expect to see the same trend in the next block at least before they really change things up again and go back to a fast passed format. We'll more than likely see another set of dual lands simply to make multi-colored decks semi possible in a mono-colored standard format, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was some kind of functional reprint of the guildgates. So it doesn't matter how much you think they suck, if scrylands and "functional guildgate reprints" are all we get then your not gonna have much of a choice about using them if your gonna play anything not mono-colored. It could be something different, I'm not making a guarantee, I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised. Especially since their goal was to slow the format down. I'm expecting them to put a little more effort into it other than just a single block.
February 19, 2014 8:38 p.m.
thataddkid says... #30
So any ideas what the next set's duals will be like? I hope for either a fetch reprint or something new and interesting that's playable in EDH (i.e. doesn't have to etbt).
February 19, 2014 10:15 p.m.
fetch lands seem like a possibility, because with scrylands they still keep the format going in the direction they've been taking it. I don't have any direct references but, I think I remember reading in other speculation threads that the rumors on those still put them further down the road in the future. With no direct reference and just relying on vague memory, I could be way off though.
February 19, 2014 10:30 p.m.
First off, I'll add my two cents on the scry land thing by saying I personally don't mind them. Scrying is pretty handy - even in modern. I never play my scry land t1 or 2 or even 3 (those drops are for shocks and conditional lands) but a t4 scry land is handy when you're looking to put the game away soon and need a decent draw. But that's maybe just me.
Also, I WANT SO BADLY for Polis Crusher to be playable outside of block, but it's never going to happen. Even with M15, and beyond, I just don't think an immunity to enchantments is enough to make him anything more than a fringe SB card.
Now, Fanatic of Xenagos , THAT'S a card that gets my Gruul juices flowing.
P.S I think the next set will be a return to Lorwyn
February 19, 2014 10:50 p.m.
I hope Sunpetal Grove and the crew are reprinted in M15. As a Selesnya aggro player, I play 4 shocks, 2 temples and the rest basics. So, if I keep a hand, 90% of the time I'll have a turn 1 basic into t2 check. Plus, they are so much cheaper than fetches.
February 19, 2014 11:15 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #35
I actually have to agree with Polis Crusher being a beast in the future. Damn I use him now and he dominates. There will be more Enchantment creatures in Journey into Nix and Archetypes will see definite play come rotation. Not to mention the fact he can remove a great deal of other Enchantments.
Come rotation many things will change. control is going to take a massive hit with BUG control most likely taking the control role. Mono White will most likely be dominant and Gruul will still exist as a contender. MUD and MBD will take some of the biggest hits but MBD will still be viable, just not as much. MUD with pretty much fall completely unless we see some more devotion enablers in M15 and JOU. Selesnya looks like it may actually dominate more than mono-white at this point. I also think Red Black will be a thing as well. Simic is looking to become pretty powerful as well (YAY).
It's really a bit too early to say but I for one have no qualms with Theros and Born of the Gods (par the Fated cards, which pretty much all suck as Rares). Rotation will see a lot more Theros block cards see play and honestly, I am okay with this.
February 19, 2014 11:29 p.m.
I believe the biggest hit is to U/W Control and any variant. The lose of supreme verdict, d-spheres and sphinx rev is just something those control decks dont get back in these new sets.
raithe000 says... #2
First off, we have another set of Theros block, plus whatever M15 brings, before rotation happens. Maybe there is some crazy inspired enabler or a cheap hexproof bestow creature in JOU. Maybe R&D messed up and put the Titans back in M15. Trying to figure out what is going to be the next big thing come rotation with less than half the cards that will be available is going to be really difficult.
Second, Theros is pushing (slightly) monocolor right now. Depending on what the next set brings, we may push even further towards mono-color decks or we may go in an entirely different direction. Multicolored cards are not the be all end all for multicolor decks.
Third, before Theros rotated, most of the top decks used mainly Innistrad cards with splashes of RTR block (except the land base, of course). Desecration Demon and Nightveil Specter were junk rares. Frostburn Weird was nowhere near Standard playable. This ties in with the first part, but we don't actually know what cards will be good in the next Standard Season. Maybe Pain Seer will become powerful enough to support a new deck. Maybe ramp will be pushed and Colossus of Akros will be a turn 4 play. Maybe we won't get any good removal and Heroic will be safe enough to play. Maybe every card in M15 will be Legendary and Heroes' Podium will reveal itself as the Ultimate Artifact we always knew it was (had to throw a joke in somewhere :P).
February 17, 2014 3:38 a.m.