Recently I made a suggestion and now another!
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 15, 2014, 1:54 p.m. by ColdHeartedSith
Recently an a player ask what would be some good sideboard material for a Boros deck, In specific he was most worried about his mono black devotion match up. I suggested it could be out raced by running Skullcrack and carrying Chained to the Rocks for Desecration Demon and finally Wear / Tear for Whip of Erebos . Leaving lots of room for other side cards. Many people chimed in to say that my advice was bad and mono black isn't playing whip, and wear/tear was a bad suggestion for a boros side. Well even if we are focusing on the mono black match up. If mono black hasn't been playing whip in mass for a week or two it dosn't mean a good player isn't going to throw it back in, now that all these net follower deck zombies aren't playing it. Lets look at it , if your black and your opponent is running 3-4 skullcrack and seems to have one everytime you drop one of your 3-4 gary's and lifegain is the advantage you need to out race fast red devotion decks. Why would you not run whip and give every creature you control lifelink at all times. Thats alot harder to counter with skullcrack. See this is an example of how the pro's trick you into cooling off a card for them, so the originater can whip back in safely and not worry about a feild of removal in an open or PT event, and rack up a win again with their signature deck. If you are too blind to see wisdom in what i'm saying here, your missing the point of these forum disscussions. But hay lets talk about it!
The whip is optional in mono-black. You make an argument for why, Here is the argument for why not. I see the wisdom in what you're saying but I also saw him use his advice in person at GP Albuquerque for that win. Though eventually he would change the deck to add one more Dark Betrayal
Anyways, the whip is win more and not that big of a deal. The fact is with mono-b you're not winning with lifegain as much as winning with Pack Rat . Wear / Tear is a better suggestion for Underworld Connections than the whip to be honest.
The meta-gaming the meta-game thing though you only need to go so far with it because you'll end up in an infinite loop trying to out game everyone/thing. What you want is a strong consistent deck with a sideboard that helps but does not win you the game against match ups.
January 15, 2014 2:06 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #4
I fully understand what you mean, and even if MBD isn't actively running whip, there is still good reason to run some sort of enchantment/artifact hate. Just because your meta has a lot of "netdeck zombies" doesn't mean that there aren't people who bring homebrews and "modified" versions of netdecks to suit their own play style. All in all there may or may not be a better answer for the whip in R/W but it still isn't a terrible suggestion. Another card that is useable would be Shattering Blow which can oust the god's weapons.
January 15, 2014 2:12 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #5
To tack on to what gufymike said, your sideboard will increase your odds of beating your matchup, not necessarily ensure that you will win
January 15, 2014 2:14 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #6
Ok and I mentioned underworld and also that many were using detention sphere and supreme so wear / tear is good vs sphere.That post is still up if anyone wants to see it. I would like to point out whip can re-board pack rat and I think lifegain is the only thing in a red vs black match up because mogis costs less than gary he just dosn't net you life and in my expirience playing against BBDs mono black with my R/W devotion I win 75% of games after side with no whip involved. I choose R/W because it has the answers to protect itself a swing life violently and its fastest even more so than blue. In my opinion whip is good because nothing really goes long game with mono black. So if your mono black thats where you wanna be at least sometimes. Alot of people don't realize red devotion only needs its first few attack turns for damage after that it can win without combat. Anyway if I was playing m. black i'd main whip because it and underworld are 4 devotion right there. Also notice gary isn't a lifelink creature already so you get twice the life when he deal damage and his trigger. Because of thoughseize and heavy destroy spell nothing should beat M.black before turn 6 really. No lifegain..then that feat becomes easier. @ gufymike
January 15, 2014 2:35 p.m.
notamardybum says... #7
being able to get rid of Underworld Connections & Whip of Erebos or BOTH AT THE SAME TIME makes Wear / Tear a good sideboard card against MBD. It also comes in handy against a lot of other enchantments. Mono blacks ability to gain large chunks of life to tip the game back in their favor makes Skullcrack a good option as well. those were solid suggestions, people are stupid. you can't argue with stupid.
January 15, 2014 2:40 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #8
To quote the famous Ron White: "You can't fix stupid"
January 15, 2014 2:43 p.m.
You still don't get mono-B, lifegain isn't the purpose of the deck and it can work without it and does, regularly. The lifeloss from gary is more important. The equivalent of Skullcrack is ran in mono-B already, with Erebos, God of the Dead which is ran more than the whip. He's better, don't focus on the lifegain of the deck because that's the wrong focus.
The whip can reanimate, sure, but the need/want for it is very little. The rat is a 4 of also. With the card advantage generated by UC and the ability to toss extra stuff to make more rats, you only play one at a time and don't overextend into anything. So they can verdict, d-sphere, or what not.
Anyways, moving on, Pithing Needle on a swamp to stop UC is a better solution than Skullcrack and Wear / Tear , and it stops the rat. You can also use it against the control decks with AEtherling and Elspeth, Sun's Champion , Garruk, Caller of Beasts , Domri Rade , Xenagos, The Reveler to name a few matchups it shines in.
January 15, 2014 2:45 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #10
I still think Pithing Needle is way under valued especially with the amount of non-mana activated abilities that are present.
January 15, 2014 2:49 p.m.
But we have to sit back and relax on this for a moment. The meta is changing right now and in a couple weeks the situation will be different (hopefully). We don't know how BNG will affect things, mono-b will probably survive, but will new releases make other decks better? Lets find out and see :)
January 15, 2014 2:55 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #12
I foresee a lot of BUG and Bant flash optimizing inspiration mechanic
January 15, 2014 2:58 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #15
Against Mono Red Devotion or R/w Devotion the lifegain from Gray Merchant of Asphodel is significant as the deck has very little late game. Dealing 20 damage is much easier than 28. That said I don't run Skullcrack to stop that. I tend to focus on burning their Pack Rat before it can multiply and Nightveil Specter to decrease the effectiveness of Gary and allow me to push more damage through. Playing reactivly is not a winning strategy for red, you don't want too wait around with Skullcrack in your hand playing off your opponent. Just my opinion.
Wear / Tear is very useful and a good sideboard card. Chained to the Rocks is an auto-include to me.
January 15, 2014 3:59 p.m.
you're not really trying to get to the late game either though in mono-B. It's an aggro-control deck that is mistaken for a midrange one. But aggro/burn strategies are managed differently. It's ok to lose to one maybe two of these, but even the 2-4 life gary gets after some stuff has been burned off, is enough. Though essentially you're not worried as much because, in later rounds they won't be around as much either. This is why the focus is more on mono-b/u and azorius/esper control.
January 15, 2014 4:28 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #17
Ok well lets assume we are R/W devotion trying to beat mono black and its trick bag, which is what suggestions this guy was asking for. I play R/W devotion and have over 21 wins at FNM in a years time and a few maxpoint events. Seven wins in Theros my dci is 2102-407-835 you can check my achievements. That being said of all the decks in standard I feel on an awkward match up with it's mono black or any heavy lifegain. Now skullcrack when equal to gary's number can be great in controlling that factor, but not whip because they have alot of flying and you have to answer all of it and when whip comes down that really creates a more aggressive black attack you must answer imeadiatey. Since whip has seen less play i've had a better win ratio against mono black just because they are afraid of their mirror. I have always sided wear / tear x2 but never main and lost to whip game 1 countless times where I dealt 25 or 26 dam before I finally died and usually had all the luck in draw. Last friday I 2-0ed a great player while his friend watched in awe..Mono black BBD cut no whip. I double mogied game one and won on a devotion 8 turn 4. Game 2 chained and mortars won me the game with a skullcrack for his first and last gary. Some would call it luck but I really felt the pressure was off without whip. For instance I don't board alot of burn anymore went from 9 that can target player to 3 because of mizzium and chained but I wouldn't let D.D swing through and hit me for 6 if it was going to gain life..hence I block it lose 2 devotion and a flyer and don't win next turn either way. I wish I could prove to you 1v1 what i'm saying as I'm more of a savant at playing than explaining. This is my response.
January 15, 2014 11:30 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #18
I fully understand the strengths and goals and steps to winning with mono black. Its just not as much of a problem to R/W without whip. BBD goes on the starcity archives to express what his scariest match up is and names mono red devotion and mentions interactions with hammer specificaly. When another event or 2 ticks by and if he hasn't already figured this out as R/W dev won all the tournements last week in mtgo. Soon whip will be back to reinforce that match up.
ColdHeartedSith says... #2
That was supposed to read : Recently a player asked -stupid dragon software-
January 15, 2014 1:57 p.m.