Replacement for cloudfin raptor
Standard forum
Posted on April 25, 2014, 4:59 p.m. by harrydemon117
Since Cloudfin Raptor has been a bad one drop late in Monoblue, what is everyone's thoughts on using Hypnotic Siren in its place? Still a 1/1 flyer on turn 1 if used that way, but can be used to steal a creature from an opponent, buff it, and give it evasion?
Since JOU is coming out tomorrow,the best replacement for Cloudfin Raptor in Mono-U should be Hypnotic Siren .Its a one drop, like Cloudfin Raptor but its better when you topdeck it since you got to control one of your opponent creatures.
April 25, 2014 5:22 p.m.
Uh. JOU definitely comes out May 2, not tomorrow.
Cloudfin Raptor has been bad? How is a 1-drop 2/3 flying bad?
April 25, 2014 5:40 p.m.
Is there even reason to debate? Anyone running the mono blue list need only copy and paste whatever changes the pros make. Snarky comments aside, I've heard some people mentioning the potential of Vortex Elemental . Its a great chump, and it's elemental so it works with the buff from Master of Waves for what its worth.
April 25, 2014 7:22 p.m.
People may adapt the build to include Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx again. It my revert back to just being mono-blue, and might even run AEtherling as another finisher.
April 25, 2014 7:43 p.m.
Cloudfin Raptor can be a 1-drop 2/3, but late-game draws of it are bad. Hypnotic Siren can at least be a Control Magic if it's drawn later, and that can be relevant in some matchups.
The early builds of Mono-U used Galerider Sliver , after all.
April 25, 2014 8:02 p.m.
I suppose. Beyond turn-5, Cloudfin draws are just horrible. Thassa helps sort out the shit, but you can't avoid blind draws after shipping to the bottom.
April 26, 2014 11:47 a.m.
After speaking to the Mono-U player at my LGS, he said Siren will replace Judge's Familiar
.
April 26, 2014 2:05 p.m.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm I dunnnnnooooooo.
Judge's Familiar holds off a lot of crap right now. I also don't understand the logic behind that; Siren is a 1/1 flying that's not relevant until turn-6 (or whatever it is; 7?) and Familiar is a 1/1 flying that's relevant as soon as it resolves.
April 26, 2014 2:11 p.m.
It's relevant for those first few turns, but that's it. After turn 3, people have the mana to cast removal and pay the tax, so it just becomes a 1/1 flyer. Siren is also a 1/1 flyer, but it can be relevant later. I'm not saying it's ideal, but in a slower format you plan for those later turns.
Like KingSorin said, it might encourage the use of Nykthos to bestow earlier.
April 26, 2014 2:53 p.m.
I reckon they may cut the white splash entirely. It'd free up lots of space and mean people could run all 3 1-drops.
April 26, 2014 10:38 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #15
As of right now, I don't see Cloudfin Raptor or Judge's Familiar being unseated. They are both far superior to Hypnotic Siren , Dakra Mystic , Vortex Elemental , or any other one-drops that Blue has to offer right now when it comes to aggro.
Post-rotation, MUD has bigger problems. Sure, you'll still have the breadwinners (Thassa, God of the Sea and Master of Waves ), but literally the entire Devotion gang of little creatures will be gone.The two one-drop flyers, Tidebinder Mage , Frostburn Weird , and Nightveil Specter will all leave Standard. I'm not sure it will even be a viable archetype post-rotation, so planning on the Siren to fill those shoes seems premature.
April 28, 2014 4:10 a.m.
Nah i don't think it'll fill the shoes alone, but something will probably come along in m15 or huey. Siren is good as it's brilliant late-game especially with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx .
April 28, 2014 6:46 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #17
I don't see Judge's Familiar leaving either. It counters Anger of the Gods , an early Thoughtseize if the mono blue player has Thassa, God of the Sea , Jace, or a Bident of Thassa they want to protect, and not to mention it can change the target of a removal spell to itself (by saccing of course and not redirecting but you get my drift).
At the worst, I'd say that 1 Cloudfin Raptor and 1 Judge's Familiar would be cut if they wanted to keep some of both. This gives them a decent chance to start with a Cloudfin Raptor turn 1, or a Judge's Familiar and not overloading the 1 CMC slot with Hypnotic Siren .
With Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx monoblue can get out Hypnotic Siren out on turn 4 (using bestow) and swing with a lot of tempo that they just gained
April 28, 2014 8:13 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #18
There may be a couple replacements in m15 and huey, but the odds of a suitable replacement for Nightveil Specter seem slim to none, and even having new 2 Devotion 2-drops seems iffy at best.
April 29, 2014 1:35 a.m.
They're not just going to kill the deck. They will make something that's average, like a 1/4 for UU, but I don't think it'll be as good as the current cards.
Dalektable says... #2
I don't really think it will work. The plus side to Cloudfin Raptor is that is grows and will become a bigger beater, where as Hypnotic Siren will just be a 1/1. It's bestow ability is a bit too high costed to be relevant, so no I don't think that'll happen.
April 25, 2014 5:15 p.m.