Sorin, Solemn Visitor in the Abzan Aggro sideboard?
Standard forum
Posted on Feb. 10, 2016, 5:47 p.m. by Mr.grizzly
After playing with Abzan Aggro for about a month now and I noticed that I have unfavorable match ups against atarka red and the U/R prowess variety decks. What are the general thoughts on Sorin in the Sideboard? He is proactive in that you can still stay aggressive and gain life, block and gain life, use dromoka's command and gain life. It just seems better than Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in these match ups, any thoughts?
JohnnyBaggins says... #3
I would really want to see your deck list. I play Abzan Aggro myself and I have no idea how you can have a bad matchup against Atarka Red. Sorin is not a solution in either case. He's a 4-drop that inherintly doesn't answer their board, stop the combo or do anything if you don't have creatures. Actual things that I'd want against Atarka Red:
- Flaying Tendrils Sweeps their tokens, Abbots and even Swiftspears. Not that good if you're up against Izzet Red.
- Arashin Cleric Gains you some life and clunks up the board.
- Ultimate Price Spot removal. Especially relevant against the combo that Atarka Red has. Neither as good nor as relevant against Izzet Red.
- Surge of Righteousness Is the perfect card in either matchup.
Sorin may be great, but I'd rather see him as a trump card in the Abzan Mirror.
February 10, 2016 7:21 p.m.
Surge of Righteousness is better spot removal against Atarka Red than Ultimate Price. With Eldrazi becoming evermore popular, and multicolour creatures continuing to run rampant, Ultimate Price is not a superb card right now.
I also agree with the above comment. While Sorin is definitely good in the Atarka Red matchup, he is far from the best card to use against it. Flaying Tendrils is the new MVP of that matchup, effectively winning the game if cast into an over-extended board. Arashin Cleric is also great, as it gains life, blocks well, and survives your own mass removal.
February 10, 2016 7:32 p.m.
Mr.grizzly says... #5
My deck is Time to Siege I am still purchasing all the fetches so it's a cheaper mana base for the time being.
February 10, 2016 7:57 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #6
I'm with you there. I personally currently don't run Ultimate Price anywhere in the 75.
February 10, 2016 8:02 p.m.
Mr.grizzly says... #7
Flaying Tendrils will be included, and it seems like Surge of Righteousness hits a good amount of cards in the Meta. I have a 1-1 record against Atarka red and a 0-2 record verse U/R prowess, the problem there is that spot removal does little to nothing so tendrils many help me press the advantage when I hit all my drops on turn.
February 10, 2016 8:15 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #8
Don't play three Ruinous Path mainboard. Path isn't even close to actually being a Hero's Downfall. Path is slow, greedy on the mana base and doesn't help you the first bit against all their combat tricks. It might sound somewhat rude, but don't play Path at all. Yeah. Don't. 0 is the correct number, in particular for Abzan Aggro. Oath of the Abzan is my version of Abzan Aggro at the moment. We've actually tested the Atarak Red match up and after I can't recall ever losing to the deck in a tournament, I went like 10-5 today in testing. Yes, you can't win every game and yes, the combo is hard to stop but in general, 2-drops are the shit against the aggro decks.
February 10, 2016 9:06 p.m.
How has Duneblast been working for you? I've been using Tragic Arrogance, and I really like it in the mirror and against Jeskai Black. Duneblast is a lot more expensive, but leaves you at a greater advantage than Tragic Arrogance...have you found it to be worth the mana?
February 10, 2016 9:14 p.m.
Mr.grizzly says... #10
Any thought on what to put in instead of path? I see that both of you use advocate, he seems good, then I seen you using Ayli, The Eternal Pilgrim she seems better I might replace path with her.
February 10, 2016 9:29 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #11
Absolutely fantastic. It leads to a lot of salt. People will tell you how unplayable the card is and how it's too expensive and how it's just bad, but they'll stop complaining after their face was beaten in by the remaining Rhino on the board. Yes, it's extremely expensive but it creates absolutely insane blowouts. It turns games you were absolutely losing into wins, which Arrogance can, but not quite as much. And, most importantly, if you don't have jack shit and they do, you at least equalize the board to null. I wouldn't want it in multiples because it's so expensive, but so far it has really, really impressed me. When I had it, it was amazing to know I have it and when it resolved, it won me all the games. In all seriousness, I can't remember losing after Duneblast resolved. Small sample size in a way, yes, but still.
February 10, 2016 9:53 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #12
@Mr.grizzly: Depends on how exactly you want the deck to play out. Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim plays an awesome role (just consider her a 2/3 deathtouch for 2, the abilities are close to being entirely useless) in offensive and defensive situations as nothing survives being blocked by or blocking her. If you intend to include more Man Lands (and lands in general), Sylvan Advocate is quite the card. 2/3 vigilance is quite a thing early and 4/5 vigilance is brutal late. Along with making Hissing Quagmire and Shambling Vent real scary.
February 10, 2016 9:58 p.m.
Mr.grizzly says... #13
@JohnnyBaggins how do you feel about Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. I feel like a one or two of could be helpful. Now I know without Path most of my removal is exiling creatures i.e Abzan Charm but by combat damage and Dromokas Command I think I could get some good use out of him, and better to be greedy for him than Path.
February 11, 2016 10:18 a.m.
The 4cmc spells you really want to be casting are Siege Rhino and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Top of the curve spells should have an immediate impact on the board, and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet does not offer that. Though, I don't think playing him would be bad. He's definitely powerful, but I'm not personally sold on him.
February 11, 2016 6:15 p.m.
Mr.grizzly says... #15
Thanks to you both, I ended up taking out Path for 2 Hissing Quagmire. The extra lands helped during playtest, even though I don't have the amount of fetches I want yet.
February 11, 2016 6:54 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #16
I used him once, then I didn't, now I'm considering putting him back in. He's good, but somewhat tough on the mana base. He also hasn't super impressed me, so I'm currently voting no.
What I'm actually considering currently is playing a Sorin main board. His life swing is just absurd and the Emblem is not only game winning, but also fairly reachable. And I'm playing with the number of Den Protector. other than that, I'm pretty happy with what I have.
February 11, 2016 7:09 p.m.
I can't recommend mainboard Sorin enough. I've been doing it since before I acquired my Gideons, and they only make him better.
TheHroth says... #2
In my deck, I use him mainboard. While not necessary in many matches, his lifegain and power buff does help win the game faster. While certainly at his best against Atarka Red, Sorin, Solemn Visitor has helped me out of many tight spots. Making my Siege Rhinos bigger than opposing Siege Rhinos is reason enough to run him alongside Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, especially when you can land Gideon on T4 and follow up with Sorin into attacking for 6 with Gideon on T5...
Sideboarding him is a good option as well, and really is up to you, but having at least 1 copy in the 75 is highly recommended.
Sorin and Gideon and the Abzan Army
Standard TheHroth
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February 10, 2016 5:55 p.m.