Stale Pro Tour???
Standard forum
Posted on Feb. 3, 2017, 2:10 p.m. by Zaueski
As I was watching Pro Tour AER everything seemed extremely stale. The same 2 decks showed up 9 out of the possible 10 times: Mardu Vehicles and B/G Snek Counters. Does anyone know if the cooler and more interesting decks are just off screen or is the format really just that stale? Even Saheeli Twin barely saw camera time. I hope day 2 brings better decks and the pros haven't just written this format off as solved.
So theres variants of the decks, but the meta according to the pros is just 3 decks...
February 3, 2017 2:44 p.m.
No there isn't really any awesome tier 1 decks this time. You have cat lady or G/B counters.
February 3, 2017 2:44 p.m.
Zaueski,
Well, the pros kind of said it's 22% Mardu Vehicles, 25% Copy Cat (three flavors), 23% Black-Green (two flavors), and 30% Other.
DEDmaster,
You may be totally right, but I think it's a little early yet to say that. We probably need to see the Day 2 conversion rate and the Top 8 first.
A breakout performance from one of the decks towards the bottom of the list? It could still happen :-)
I'm personally pulling for the one brave soul who sleeved up Red-Green Energy Aggro!
February 3, 2017 3:09 p.m. Edited.
This Standard is boring the pants off me.
Same few decks all the time.
Yawn-a-rama.
February 3, 2017 4:19 p.m.
I'm actually considering making some modern decks during this season, I'll build my copycat cause I already have most of it. There's just not much room for brewing it looks like. Hopefully day 2 will have some more brews in it.
February 3, 2017 4:29 p.m.
Ugh, more aggro. At least its something new, but all this aggro just makes me sick. (In case you couldn't tell, I don't like aggro) Like where's the U/B Improvise or Control decks? Herald of Anguish is a million times cooler than a stupid snek. Think I'll play at game day and probably skip out on the rest of this season...
Looks like I've got time to devote to building Lantern Control now.
February 3, 2017 4:41 p.m.
NapoleonBonaparte says... #11
And they said no one wanted to watch modern pro tours......
February 3, 2017 4:51 p.m.
shuflw,
Oh yeah. Derp.
Zaueski,
Despite the potential breakout by , I'm with you re: Modern. MTGtop8 stats for the last two weeks (i.e., after the bans hit Modern, and bans+AER hit Standard) tell a pretty compelling story:
- Modern has 7 decks with 5% or more of the meta, and though together they make up 45% of the field, there's still room for 55% "Other" competitive decks.
- Standard has 5 decks with 5% or more of the meta, but they make up 70% of the field, leaving only 30% "Other" :-(
I've played budget decks in Standard the last few seasons, saving $ up for a Tier I deck which I planned to buy this season. We'll see how the rest of the weekend goes in Dublin, but my current plan is to put every dime into Modern Infect.
February 3, 2017 5:16 p.m.
ork_mcgork says... #13
"Cooler and more interesting" to who exactly? Some of us happen to like Mardu Vehicles and BG Snek. My toughest matchups tonight at FNM were an Esper control deck and a mono-R aggro deck (I currently play RW Vehicles and I'm transitioning to Mardu but it'll likely look different from what the pros play). There's lots of opportunity for a variety of decks at the FNM level. If you're looking to to be the very best, like no one ever was then you'll have to play what's "best." That doesn't change - any standard environment will be like that. People are quick to forget the days of Mono-Black and UW Control in RTR-Theros standard, where everyone else got shut out by almost exclusively those decks, or when Jeskai Black and Mardu Green were rampant - so it's Mardu Vehicles and BG Snek now... what's next? Who knows, but the trend will continue.
Borrowing the provided example of Lantern Control as a deck that meets the qualifiers of "cool and more interesting," I would pose that it will only be so for the wielder of the deck - my Modern-playing friends all detest it and none of them run the same deck.
Keep an open mind - it's only been day 1 of pro tour and the store level isn't always exactly like the PT is.
February 4, 2017 3 a.m.
I have played Standard since JIN.
A couple of Seasons ago there were a variety of "Tier 1" decks.
GB Delerium, UW Spirits, RG Werewolves, BR Zombies, BR Vampires, GW Angels, GW Tokens, BW Control.
This season at my LGS there is mostly GB SnekDeck / Delerium, Saheeli Guardian ... and that's it.
If where you play hasn't stagnated, that is fortunate for you, as it has at most LGS.
February 4, 2017 4:17 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #15
Argeaux if you think RG werewolves was tier 1, you are either joking, or unaware of what tier 1 means lol
February 4, 2017 4:50 a.m.
I did not say it was Tier 1 at all.
I said "Tier 1", as in quite a lot of people played it.
Even without that deck in the list there were still more deck types able to be competitive, than in the current Standard.
February 4, 2017 4:54 a.m. Edited.
Info's out on the Day 2 Conversion Rate and it looks like a bunch of decks performed above expectations. Surprised to see Copy Cat SERIOUSLY underperforming (except when paired with Aetherworks Marvel). It also looks like RB Aggro may have some legs. And though RG Energy didn't make it to Day 2, Jund Energy's still in the game!
Good news for Standard, for sure.
February 4, 2017 2:27 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #18
I don't see how this is good news for standard when 6 of the top 8 decks are Mardu Vehicles. In which each deck is similar in about 75-80% of the main 60. Now don't get me wrong, it was a great meta call, but explain how it wasn't performing well before the Pro Tour? It was still played, just never saw success before this weekend. Also, it's not that much of an overly oppressive deck and can be easily twarted and disrupted, it's just fast. But I guess when 70% of the PT is 3 decks, you're bound to end up with a boring top 8.
February 4, 2017 6:40 p.m.
As a Vehicles Player I'm glad to see them doing so well but, as UpperDeckerTaco said, I think they are doing well because Copy Cat and Snek Deck aren't set up to deal with them.
I've found that Vehicles can outrace Copy Cat. It's how I've been winning against it, at the local level.
February 4, 2017 9:41 p.m.
Sooo, all the players here, mean to tell me that haven't found a way to 'outsmart' copycat , g-b delirium, etc? Just brew a deck, that focuses on how to kill them. It is simple as this...My land destruction, ie. , kills copycat decks, gb delirium and vehicles, without breaking a sweat. Just hit them where they hurt more and gg for you...
February 5, 2017 1:33 a.m.
Nobody said that.
I mean in the post just above yours I said I could outrace Copy Cat.
The problem with setting up a deck that ONLY deals with those two decks is that it could be too weak against other decks in the meta eg. Vehicles, which will potentially see some play, or Control - which would laugh in the face of Land destruction.
I run Counterpells in my Vehicles deck so it wouldn't worry me that much, for example.
My Cast a Shadow deck crushes both and Copy Cat.
However, that doesn't prove that those two decks aren't overly advantaged.
February 5, 2017 3:14 a.m. Edited.
Mardu Vehicles in the Top 6 beating out Jund Aggro and B/G Delirium. All 6 other decks are vehicles. So disappointing in comparison to Kaladesh with a sick Control matchup in the finals
February 5, 2017 5:40 a.m.
I predict that Mardu Vehicles will win the Pro Tour.
/sarcasm
February 5, 2017 7:28 a.m.
Argeaux You know, what makes me wonder? Is there noone that plays anti meta decks? your deck, is really, really nice and can easily kill all mardu vehicles WHY THE FUCK, is there no deck like this at top 8? Why all the top8 decks, are the same? :S
February 5, 2017 9:44 a.m.
the pro tour these days is not about what is the most fun, or the most playable decks. Its all about what works and what wins. so they dont take chances. they make what everyone is playing cause they know it works. so you see repeats after repeats. and this is how they control the value of cards. so that the rares and mythic rares are the ones that have the most value. but with the growing popularity of poppers I think that will change.
February 5, 2017 10:30 a.m.
I am awake.
The rest of Oz is asleep.
Just bought all the Release the Gremlins while they are still dirt cheap!
clayperce you were right about that card.
February 5, 2017 11:19 a.m.
ROUROU I actually think that, behind the scenes, Pros are told to build with cards from the current sets.
That's why you won't see Control do well on the Pro Tour. The cards are mostly from SOI.
I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories, but it does explain the Tour we just saw.
February 5, 2017 11:23 a.m.
Did anyone catch the cheating in the Pro Tour?
From what I can tell a player incorrectly moved to Crew a Vehicle that had entered play that turn, then declared it as an attacker. It did not have Haste and the Crew member could not give it Haste.
His Opponent assumed that he was attacking with the Crew Member, which was 3 Power, and recorded 3 damage against himself.
The attacker recorded the damage as 4, which was the Power of the Vehicle - Heart of Kiran.
February 5, 2017 1:45 p.m.
Argeaux,
Yeah, and I thought it was very cool that Brock was disqualified for it.
February 5, 2017 1:49 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #30
There was more than just that cheating at the pt. Competitive magic is a joke. The judges are nitwits and cheating is on a grander scale than most realize. Such as, how the flying fuck does it make sense to make magic a team "sport" when it was designed for the individual? Which leads to the basis of my rant...teams colluding and giving away information they should not being giving away. Example: round 4, Start of constructed, you can just literally note the opponent you are playing, what they are playing, what team they are on, and then in between rounds, get with your team and let them know. Which is bullshit. Or here's another example: preset hand signals to inform your teammate who is currently playing, what his opponent is playing, what's in his hand, etc...
TL;DR - Competitive Magic is a joke, "Team" Magic is a bigger joke.
February 6, 2017 10:55 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco true!! i noticed it too! those teams are a joke... only format, that has me interested into, is draft...
February 7, 2017 5:55 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #33
Oh look, the Ban failed and the format is even more lopsided. Never woulda guessed...
February 7, 2017 1:43 p.m.
The Copter ban would have worked if they hadn't printed such a good replacement for it.
I think they thought the Crew 3 would dissuade people from using it but, as it turned out, you can stack your deck with lots of 2 drops that can do just that.
February 7, 2017 4:50 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #35
It's almost as if having a really good 4 drop Planeswalker nullifies the intent of the ban. Gee willigers Batman!
February 7, 2017 5:55 p.m.
I believe, the format, would be different, if they had banned just 2 cards. Gideon and copter. :P
February 8, 2017 3:52 a.m.
All I can say is that no one rocked up to play WNM at our LGS.
My guess is that they are all waiting for their #1 Mardu Vehicles cards to arrive.
Or maybe they have decided to sit this season out.
February 8, 2017 5:49 a.m.
Argeaux LOL, build an anti vehicles deck and go wreck them PLEASE xD
February 8, 2017 6:45 a.m.
Oh don't worry ROUROU I actually hope they do all play #1 Mardu Vehicles because Cast a Shadow will smash face.
February 8, 2017 7:12 a.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #40
Guys! It's the end of standard! Magic is literally broken completely in half because one deck did really well at a single tournament where it's best matchup was heavily played! Everyone quit standard!
February 8, 2017 1:56 p.m.
That seems funny but, for the first time in the two years I've been playing Standard, NO ONE turned up to play at our Wednesday night Standard tourney except for me and my partner.
Something about the format may have been broken.
February 8, 2017 2:58 p.m.
nah.... if that is the case then magic all together is busted. cause playing modern sucks. Its for players with disposable income or cards that have been laying in the closet for 8 years. I've played modern and no thanks. If you dont have answers by turn 4 you are boned. With a format that still has poison counters. and no way to take care of them. yeah no. you want to talk about repeat look at the line up for the last modern tournament.
I'll stick to my standard, (where no one ever has the tier 1's unless they spent alot of money on it. and in that case they can have it.) and I'll play my casual modern nights with friends that don't miss count damage. (meaning turds that what anything to win.)
I just play cause I like figuring out how to beat the tier 1's. So I'm super into the fact that they are all playing the same deck, cause in retrospective that means that dudes like us (the kind of people that want to build fun decks cause they are fun to play not because they are the same decks they won protour with.) we can have our game back. And the tier 1's will lose every game and have to actually learn how to build and stop copy & paste-ing their decks from something they saw at pro tour this year. lets face it you are not a good player unless you can build and play. Cause building is a huge part of the game.
sorry for the long one. Im just tired of people saying the game is over cause there is really only like three tier ones this year. So why dont we all just play the game the way it was meant to be played, building and playing. not just playing.
February 8, 2017 7:06 p.m.
I can't enjoy games of Standard if there's no one to play against.
February 8, 2017 8:59 p.m.
DEDmaster yeah... NO , dude, the format is over. Accept it
February 9, 2017 2:15 a.m.
Remember the good old days of theros, when no-one saw the black devotion being the best deck in the format. I think this is the case in pretty much every pro tour - the aggro/tempo decks dominate it and then the control decks figure it out.
The format is far from dead.
February 9, 2017 2:34 a.m.
Boza no one showed up in my store either... this hasen't happened ever... i am a standard player and this hurts me to say, but the format is dying slowly :/
February 9, 2017 2:36 a.m.
I'm not claiming Standard is dead.
I said the format MAY have been broken.
For the moment.
Wizards might be able to do something to revitalise it, but that's why they tried to do Pre-AER and it hasn't worked.
February 9, 2017 6:35 a.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #49
Yep, standard is literally a dead format! Mardu vheicles is totally unbeatable, there's nothing anyone can do, standard is dead. My random lgs anecdote proves it!
You can sulk all you want, but I'm gonna play fnm tonight and then play in a 1k standard event on sunday prepared to beat mardu vehicles.
February 10, 2017 2:18 p.m.
Heh you think I'm sucking.
I just have an opinion. You don't share it.
That doesn't make it wrong.
clayperce says... #2
Zaueski,
Mardu Vehicles and BG Constrictor may have been 90% of the coverage, but they were only ~38% of the Day 1 meta.
Here's the full Day 1 breakdown.
February 3, 2017 2:33 p.m.