Sultai or Dimir control?
Standard forum
Posted on Feb. 11, 2015, 9:38 a.m. by CabsContra04
I pretty much have the standard Dimir control deck built to a T. Dimir Control. However, I have seen a few sultai control decks floating around running Kiora, the Crashing Wave and I was kind of hoping to get an opinion on switching over. I hate getting color screwed when it comes to tri-color decks (as happened Monday with my Temur tempo deck). I was told that Dimir just doesn't have an answer for aggro decks and turn 1 drops will pretty much be the death of me.
Thoughts?
canterlotguardian says... #3
Dimir doesn't have Courser of Kruphix or Sylvan Caryatid. Just keep that in mind.
February 11, 2015 10:07 a.m.
ZooGambler says... #4
Honestly Dimir has a pretty good match up against aggro because they have access to 4 bile blight and 4 drown in sorrow post board. The thing with Sultai and the major benefits of adding green is having way more options and fire power but you do it less consistently simply because of CIPT lands. But honestly Sultai control is where it seems to be at the moment with Gerard Fabiano's pile of cards deck.
February 11, 2015 10:28 a.m.
CabsContra04 says... #5
I like my Dimir deck. I like it a lot. Plus I have all the cards lol. I just want to actually have a good shot at being competitive and my local meta is mostly aggro/midrange decks. I saw 1 sultai control last week but mostly it was aggro/midrange decks. Damn minotaur deck gets out crazy damage when he +3/+1 DS's a minotaur on turn 3 O_o
February 11, 2015 12:03 p.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #6
If you run some Temple of Mystery and some Opulent Palace (4 of each) as well as a few forests then you should be fine with the mana issue.
February 11, 2015 12:30 p.m.
Sultai is where it's at. you get Sultai Charm, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Garruk, Apex Predator, Satyr Wayfinder (he is better than caryatid/courser in control) and some sweet options in the SB like Rakshasa Deathdealer for the control mirror. If you need help with a list I'd be more than happy to help :)
February 11, 2015 1:06 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #8
Dimir is more of a draw-go deck, while BUG is more tap-out control. So it depends on your play style. I honestly feel like Dimir is better v aggro due to faster mana and consistency with hitting t2 Bile Blight or Nullify and t3 Drown in Sorrow.
February 11, 2015 2:08 p.m.
I like a lot of things about Fabiano's Sultai list, but I'm a bit hesitant to make the switch since it means abandoning Dissolve.
February 11, 2015 4:25 p.m.
CabsContra04 says... #10
ewww....no Dissolve? That is a go to powerhouse in Dimir. I played a few games this evening against jeskai tokens and sultai whip and had i not f'd up the play against the whip deck I would've taken both. Jeskai didn't stand a chance against me. Whip deck was running 4 Torrent Elemental. God they suck so much to deal with.
February 12, 2015 12:02 a.m.
Fabiano made an update on his washington deck and he dropped the 2 Rakshasa's Secret which everyone seemed to be hesitant about. It interfered with too many other plays he could've been making.
Although Sultai seems weaker than Dimir vs aggro I don't think it's that significant.1. It should be able to cast Crux of Fate as fast as Dimir, which is the staple card to stabilize against aggro.
2. It runs 11 ETB tapped lands, which is not that bad compared to the 8 of U/B.
3. It runs 20 sources of black mana, so early Bile Blight are not a problem.
4. Satyr Wayfinder can trade against other 1 toughness creatures, or it can chump block when needed. If the opponent removes it, he's spending mana and a turn to do so.
4.1. Sultai run 25 lands, but it's almost as if it was running 29 with the Satyr Wayfinder, that means less flooding.
4.2. Because of Wayfinder, Dig Through Time is very easy to cast.
5. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Kiora, the Crashing Wave either put early pressure or gain time.
6. Sultai Charm is awesome, insurance against enchantments, destroy creatures, draw cards and fuel the graveyard.
7. Garruk can gain life in a 7 mana tempo fashion... (lol not that much tempo but still).
8. The sideboard!!! Rakshasa Deathdealer, ultra efficient Tasigurs (thanks to satyr wayfinder), Necropolis Fiend, Polukranos, World Eater, Feed the Clan is kind of cool against burn.
Seriously, I think the biggest disadvantage of running Sultai is the lack of efficient on curve counter spells. The second is no Radiant Fountain... Appart from that I think it does better than U/B!
Here's a link to my Sultai Control list! I've inspired myslef from Fabino's update and I think it has great potential!http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-02-15-brood-control/
February 19, 2015 5:04 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #12
I personally feel like when I played with both, the Sultai deck has more win cons and a higher top end, but U/B has a better control variant. So it depends on what you like. I like the more control aspect. Because in my mind, if I can keep your board, and hand, under control and keep my win cons protected, then I don't need a thousand different win cons. My only question is, I'm trying to determine which of these two will be better once DTK launches: U/W control or U/B control. They are each getting some upgrades but I feel like U/W is getting more overall power. But then again, the U/B has better early game control. Any thoughts between those two?
March 10, 2015 12:22 p.m.
CabsContra04 says... #13
In my mind the big difference between U/W and U/B is how they manage the resolved board state. So while 
offers lots of answers to resolved creatures in Bile Blight and Hero's Downfall and even pre casting answers like Thoughtseize it lacks any answer to resolved enchantments short of Ugin and/or vault. This has been my biggest downfall to date is not holding an answer to an ascendancy or whip or even that damn white manifest enchantment that is all the rage right now.
Whereas with 
you gain a lot of answers for enchantments but i think you give up some of the creature hate (yes there are some good white removal cards but losing access to blight against monastery/rabblemaster tokens is killer). Both have access to an efficient board wipe and i think the white one is actually cheaper money wise right now as everybody wants crux instead. It really depends on what DTK brings to the table for both. I've seen some good dragons for both control variants. So that's probably all of no use to you but it's really my thoughts on the state of control at the moment. I personally would love to see esper make a big comeback in DTK. Will it be powerful enough to stop the aggro/dragon decks i think will be dominating this meta? I don't know.
March 10, 2015 2:36 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #14
CabsContra04 check out my page, I have an esper, U/W, and U/B deck on there (with DTK additions).
EmblemMan says... #2
I would play sultai it just has a lot more interesting cards when you add green
February 11, 2015 9:57 a.m.