the current state of control
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 27, 2014, 6:52 p.m. by Nightstlkr
I've been playing control or tempo since I've got into magic, i just love that playstyle, but looking at the BotG set, is there really a chance for a deck like this to shine anymore in the U/W or U/W/X model? seeing a good bit of the decks here seem to be more of a mono B/black based control deck, and it seems like B/R/X midrange is going to be a big part of the format. is there a chance for a sphinx's rev deck to do well, or will black based decks just keep it out?
Nightstlkr says... #3
My friend has been playing bant since theros, and he said its not that great, it loses to monoB easier than U/W or with R splash or esper., and other matchups are about equal. As far as kiora goes, i dont see it being as great as everyone wants, a 4 drop that needs till turn 9 (upkeep) to be relevant, assuming not 1 source hits it is not efficient, whearas all other wincons in the meta are immediate. what makes you think U/B control is going to be more relevant than B/R when Slaughter Games and other B/R haymakers have been dormant for so long? although U>R for carddrawing, Underworld Connections still proves itself as a great source
January 27, 2014 7:06 p.m.
For bant I just think BNG offers some nice cards and fun interactions that could prove to be very useful. Voice as a two drop to stall against aggro. There is the 5 drop green guy who has tribute 3 or destroy target non and permanent, kiora is just an extra layer to keep the game dragging, not an efficient win con but efficient at stalling to your wincon, can be subbed out for Jace AoT against more aggro lineups, prime speaker as a bomb with the tribute guy. Thats just a few ideas Ive toyed around with personally. U/B will be more relevant B/R (aggro or control?) because A) counter magic B) the 3 cmc infest w/scry to slow down aggro, black has (in my opinion) more efficient removal than red. Blue is just to control the board state, the black is more where the win cons lie. Also, if they side in slaughter games, well then wait till turn three then duress it away. B/R can't stop that. Also, control is all about card advantage so U/B already has more of an upper hand that the R/B counterpart
January 27, 2014 7:17 p.m.
Nightstlkr says... #5
B/R control/tempo i was referring to. generally you dont really need to be hitting your card draws till later in the game, plus it tends to have a bit more of a curve so its less reliant on having more cards that almost always work versus just every card being land, answer, draw, or preemptive answer (i.e. Thoughtseize ) sure you get access to counterspells, but thats really only helpful in the control vs control matchup. also, sure Infest slows, but is not nearly as strong as Anger of the Gods . youre also assuming they need/have it turn 3. chances are control decks dont play wincons till turn 10+, so even 2 is more than enough. chances are you wont have it till you can play it, and theres no response to it when they get it.
so in the mirror, U/B might have the advantage, but in general the R has more power than the U, i think, because U/B cards just arent focused for control plays, and outside of counter and draws, U as an individual color is only so strong.
January 27, 2014 7:28 p.m.
Why wouldn't it? Supreme Verdict , Detention Sphere and Sphinx's Revelation won't stop being powerful cards.
The other way to look at it, mono-black, the format's bogeyman, is really only getting upgrades to its removal, which is pretty irrelevant against control. Likewise the prevalence of Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow shoring up mono-blacks game against aggro will likely push more aggro out of the format, which is also good for control. The bigger problem deck going forward is going to be the GR lists.
My prediction is that UW or UWx will still continue to be the premiere control shell for the foreseeable future.
January 27, 2014 7:30 p.m.
I guess its just a matter of preference then. R may have more bite but I feel like the blue is more consistent. But either way I have my faith in a new bant.
January 27, 2014 7:34 p.m.
Nightstlkr says... #8
thats a good point about the meta moving to midrange decks. any deck like mono B where its just kill spells into efficient wins ( Pack Rat , Desecration Demon , etc) will be the better midrange deck. on top of that, i just see something as simple as Mogis, God of Slaughter being secretly a killer card in the control matchup, while the deck where mono B seems to struggle alot in with R/G monsters, now can mop up removal on the weak guys and let mogis and Devour Flesh hit the rest. maybe I'm just surprised it hasnt morphed into a red splash for that deck yet, i dont know.
do you feel like the mono B will have the edge in that matchup though? its already pretty much 50/50 depending how each player set their 75.
January 27, 2014 7:36 p.m.
I feel like the gods may start to be less influential due to the reintroduction of Revoke Existence unless decks start to pack more of them.
As for mono black having an edge, I think so primarily due to grey merch.
January 27, 2014 7:40 p.m.
Nightstlkr says... #10
i just dont see Revoke Existence past a 2 of, due it really only being relevant in certain matchups, while you should probably focus Detention Sphere to get the gods. even if it gets 1 or 2 hits, it does its job, and requires the opponent to thin their deck with the revokes for a specific card only for the gods, as well as having them spend their mana when you can just respond with something like a merchant, or demon.
January 27, 2014 7:44 p.m.
Nightstlkr says... #11
wait.. Revoke Existence hits Underworld Connections even at a 2 of, thats definitely a HUGE advantage for the U/W/(or X) player. maybe it could sneak its way into a 3 of if mono B and junk becomes the big decks
January 27, 2014 7:46 p.m.
I think we will definitely see a resurgence in control though which I am happy about.
January 27, 2014 7:49 p.m.
Nightstlkr says... #13
if it does, is the elixir deck going to stay the most popular? i feel like its been around a little too long now for it to still work.
2austin5 says... #2
Ive been brewing (mentally since I don't have the money to play right now) and I honestly think Bant control (U/W/G) stands a chance in the upcoming meta. You have kiora, d-sphere, elspeth, verdict, and a variety of other very playables that are solid game changers. I also think that U/B (not mill) will have a shot and esper will still be good
January 27, 2014 7 p.m.