Theros Power Level: Toned Down a Bit?
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 20, 2013, 6:04 p.m. by MinscAndBoo
Is it just me, or are Wizards turning down the brokenness a bit from Return to Ravnica / Innistrad? Aside from a few cards (Thoughtseize ), the new set lacks the bombs of RTR. Removal especially seams weaker. Where are the board wipes? There's nothing even close to Supreme Verdict or Olivia Voldaren . And thank the gods for that.
The lack of efficient removal makes sense for a set built around enhancing your creatures; it wouldn't be any fun if your thrice-enchanted Hero bit the bricks often. But look at the mana costs of this set. Seven mana to Bestow most of Emmissaries? And the dual lands all enter tapped, obviously to nerf tri-color behemoths like Jund. But did they intend for those three-color decks to dominate, or did they mess up by allowing both buddy lands and shock lands in the same environment?
I'm all for keeping power levels in check, and I hope the next set continues the slightly-less-broken trend.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #3
Yes, they're trying to slow down the format, and part of that is limiting the power of the things they make to some extent. You won't be getting huge, fast, powerful, colorful creatures in this block. You'll get good, "balanced" creatures.
They didn't make a mistake, per se, when they made shock and buddy lands legal at the same time. They created a multicolor block, and had to make sure the resources were available to facilitate that. Now that single-color decks are getting put back into the spotlight, Wizards is using slower lands to wean us off of our greedy high horses.
Also bestow costs are intended to be high. You're basically paying for two copies of whichever creature you're casting, so you should expect to have to spend extra mana to get it. The creatures themselves are actually pretty on-curve.
September 20, 2013 6:20 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #4
Glimpse of Nature is broken. Cloudpost is broken. Channel is broken. I don't believe anything from ISD or RtR are broken. There hasn't been a singular deck using a particular card that has dominated the meta. In fact, the sheer number of competitive decks in standard shows that these two blocks have been very balanced.
September 20, 2013 6:45 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #5
@ Unforgivn_II (Metallica reference in your username? Cool.) I would dispute that Snapcaster Mage and Liliana of the Veil are almost broken. Given their cheap CMC and powerful abilities they'll forever be Eternal format cards. Didn't Wizards say that printing Snapcaster Mage was a mistake?
Onto the original post... Yep, Standard is definitely being powered down. I'm in concurrence with the previous comments. I would like to add that Standard saw a decrease in power level after the Titans left. In my opinion Standard was at an all time power level since the original Ravnica and Mirrodin block when Jace, the Mind Sculptor
was legal.
I've seen a radical shift away from a powerful constructed Standard format towards pleasing the Limited players. From a business standpoint, smart on Wizard's behalf. From another perspective the design team wants to keep games long and enjoyable for Standard, hence the 'well balanced' nature of the creatures. As far as the Bestow mechanic goes, I feel as if a few cards may see fringe play and will be in top tier decks. The same goes for Monstrous. Heroic will definitely see play.
My opinion is that mono colored decks (especially Red Deck Wins) and control will see a resurgence. Shard decks, that is Jund, Naya, Morglen, etc, will be far less played due to the mana restrictions. Chromatic Lantern may see more play as a result. That's my two cents. I could very well be wrong...
September 20, 2013 7:15 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #6
I meant "broken" in the figurative sense (damn good), not the literal one (game-breaking; ban-worthy). Although Thoughtseize is pushing it IMO, at least in Standard. Time will tell.
And again, I'm glad they're toning down Standard a bit. Just worried that after Theros they'll ramp it up again, when what they need to do is keep it in check. If future sets are more like this one, I'll be much happier with the weekly tourney at our shop. If I never see a Thragtusk again, it will be too soon.
So psyched for tomorrow!
September 20, 2013 7:28 p.m.
Thragtusk has nothing on Wurmcoil Engine . And while both are powerful cards, neither are broken. And snapcaster isn't nearly as OP as Dark Confidant or Stoneforge Mystic not to mention goyf.
September 20, 2013 8:01 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #8
@aeonstoremyliver - Hey, I believe youre the first one on here to mention it! As far as the cards go, I like it when they print good cards. Sure, Liliana and Snapcaster are extremely powerful. And seeing how open-ended Snap is, I can almost guarantee there will be an instant or sorcery in the future that he just breaks in half (which would presumably lead to Snapcaster's banning in modern). And they did say he was a mistake, so I would assume they need any reason to ban him. Lili is just good. But not broken.
All that to say, neither had a stranglehold on standard. Snap was a beast in American Flash, and Lili found a home in Jund and some iterations of Junk Rites, but think of all of the other solid decks out there that use neither. Aristocrats (all combinations of B/W/x) and Kibler Aggro are winning decks that don't use them.
As for modern, there are so many decks that it isn't even funny. Those two are great in the modern versions of American Flash and Jund respectively, but those decks aren't the end-all-be-all of modern.
I would agree that Theros doesn't have any game-breakers in the long run. If there is, my bet is on Purphoros. Also, having standard without the tedious and completely obvious Resto-Thrag combo will be great.
September 20, 2013 8:07 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #9
Wurmcoil Engine rocks. Indeed one of my favorites. Dismay, being able to Flash Snapcaster Mage in to recast any Instant or Sorcery from the graveyard is freaking insane. He's basically extra copies of Counterspell , Force of Will , Swords to Plowshares , Path to Exile , and even Brainstorm . I think he's very much on par with Bob, Goyf, and Stoneforge. Awhile after rotation I suspect he will be a $40 card easily.
Liliana makes her way into Mono Black Control, Jund, Junk, and Reanimate decks quite well. I did say almost broken...lol. She's a Planeswalker that will definitely retain her value given her abilities and CMC. Very, very playable in Modern and Legacy. Without Bloodbraid Elf Jund has had it's struggles in Modern, but in Legacy it's still quite potent.
I've been out of the Standard loop for awhile as I really couldn't afford or justify dropping insane amounts of cash for Thragtusk
, Thundermaw Hellkite
, Restoration Angel
, and the like. Especially given post rotation they're Modern viable at best. Resto may be Legacy playable, but in any case.
I suppose given the circumstances I'm willing to invest in cards that will be playable in eternal formats rather than shelling out tons of cash on stuff that's not. Thoughtseize
would be a card like that. Thassa could be another. Deathrite Shaman
, Abrupt Decay
, and Scavenging Ooze
definitely.
September 20, 2013 9:33 p.m.
@aeonstoremyliver, I agree with most of what you said, but "Without Bloodbraid Elf
Jund has had it's struggles in Modern"! Half of the GP Detroit top 8 was Jund. Jund is weaker, not struggling.
However, I do think that snappy is on par with bob. He has a lot of stuff going for him.
September 20, 2013 10:08 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #11
Weaker/struggling... Semantics lol. One in the same, I suppose. I haven't seen the Detroit results prior to posting. I have seen lots of combo decks, Melira Pod, Twin, and Scapeshift being dominant in my meta and some GP tourneys within the last few months. Jund still has a leg up with discard, removal, awesome card advantage, and beaters. I have seen Hatebears/Maverick being the next thing in Modern. Did Reid Duke or someone similar run one recently using Voice of Resurgence and AEther Vial ?
September 20, 2013 10:14 p.m.
On one hand, sure, Snapcaster Mage is very versatile. But unless you wanna pay 4 mana for a Restoration Angel or Cryptic Command (which isn't that uncommon, but still) his job is done once he hits the board. Bob gives you an extra card every turn (at a price). Stoneforge Mystic tutors up Batterskull and Jitte, and bypasses counterspells if she sticks. I think that makes them slighty better. But that's just my opinion.
September 20, 2013 10:16 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #13
Sidenote: Also, someone really needs to find a kick ass, Modern control deck, if for nothing else to balance the meta. I'm not usually a control player, but I do like a balance in the Force...
September 20, 2013 10:21 p.m.
American Control is trying really hard to be that deck. Also, Chapin's always goofin' off with some Grixis Cruel build or something. Star Wars reference= day made.
September 20, 2013 10:24 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #15
They're all phenomenal two drops. Undeniable. I was simply stressing the viability and playability of Snappy in Modern and Legacy.
September 20, 2013 10:25 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #18
Thanks kindly, I try :-)
Now if Metallica covered the Imperial March, we'd all be happy...
Dismay says... #2
Broken, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
September 20, 2013 6:20 p.m.