thought vs duress, underworld vs read the bones
Standard forum
Posted on March 6, 2014, 8:36 a.m. by Lacken
So over these last few months I have seen some avid discussion about the above mentioned cards and I decided to throw it out there to get a wider collection of thoughts.
First upThought seize vs Duress We all know the cards and what they do so I wont go into that detail I am just wondering on which you prefer and why. My 2 cents, both are side board cards and both can have strong arguments to be a main board card. Thought seize will be more effective against Grull and Jund decks and Duress has equal the power against control decks minus the shock value. So, convince me why one is better than the other?
NEXT!underworld connections vs read the bones.Again we all know the cards so the detailed description will be lacking in this post.My 2 cents, I'd take read the bones 10/10 times and twice on Fridays'. Cycling 4 cards for 2 life compared to a 1 for 1 trade off on underworld is far better. Underworld can be pithing needel'd which is annoying and if you are using it in rounds 15-20 something isn't going your way. Where Bones can be used early and often before round 10 and you should by then have the cards you are looking for.
So, convince me other wise!
Thoughtseize isn't a sideboard card. Every deck with black plays it in main, with rare exceptions. Duress is just strictly worse. In old T2, there was no Thoughtseize yet, so people played Duress , but now, the choice is kinda obvious. Thoughtseize can discard ANY NONLAND CARD, while Duress works ONLY ON NONCREATURE, NONLAND CARDS. So... easy choice - Thoughtseize . 2 life isn't much of a drawback, when you can heal from Gray Merchant of Asphodel , Sphinx's Revelation or other stuff.
The reason Underworld Connections is played a lot and Read the Bones isn't is pretty obvious, but I will tell you.Why Underworld Connections is heavily played?
-it adds 2 devotion to black
-it allows to draw an additional card EACH TURN at a cost of one land, which isn't much.
-it's really powerful for its cost. Compare it to classics, Jayemdae Tome for example. The difference is big. Continuous draw for 1 life and 1 land? Count me in.
Why Read the Bones isn't played?
-It doesn't fit the curve like Sign in Blood did. In decks with black, the 3 mana slot is very often filled with other cards.
-It is not like Ponder or other stuff like that, because it has higher cmc and the bonus 1 card doesn't change anything. Preordain draws 1 less card, but has no drawback and it costs 1. Sure, it's not Standard, but still.
-It is a one-trick pony - no recursion.
-It doesn't add devotion(xD)
-When you run Thoughtseize , shocklands, Herald of Torment or other selfpain cards, you simply cannot afford more selfpain.
-RtB is more risky. Let's say we just scry and see two lands. Oh god, put on bottom. Then you draw another two lands. With Ponder , we would just shuffle the library. With Preordain , we didn't lose much mana at all and no life either. With RtB, we lost 3 mana and 2 life. With cards like Divination or Sign in Blood , the thing is they are cheaper and don't cost life. A card for 3 mana should not cost life unless the effect is really powerful (Herald of Torment has its stats boosted a lot and it's a flier). Scry 2 draw 2 is just not that great. If it drew three cards, it would be better than UC. But Underworld Connections is recurrent draw and you can actually draw with it multiple times per turn with some untap effects - Ral Zarek , Hidden Strings , etc.
That's all my opinion and you don't have to agree with it. However, you wanted us to tell what we think, so I did.
March 6, 2014 8:51 a.m.
I've pulled so many thought seize since theros was released and I still would rather play duress. I mean yeah thought seize is amazing for its ability to hit almost anything but I look at it as I'm playing black that has an over abundance of kill spells. I'm sure I can kill whatever my opponent plays. On the flip side I may not have as many answers to a big enchantment or a major instant or sorcery.
As for connections versus bones I don't play either but I like connections more for the long term used especially since the merchant can play off of it.
March 6, 2014 8:58 a.m.
I appreciate the feedback from you all! I do think thought seize is the better card now that grull has become a fade, but everyone saw that coming. I'm just not sold on underworld yet, I've had secuss with two different style of decks playing Friday nights and both have had reach the bones in them. I see the point being able to use underworld multiable times in a turn and also having the access to use it at the end of their turn as well. I think the life issue is turning into a moot point because every black deck will have either the whip in it or grey merchant. I guess it just comes down to the style of deck you are playing, for my B/R/W deck the more cards I get in a shortest amount of time helps me the most.
March 6, 2014 3:43 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #6
Can I cheat and say Inquisition of Kozilek is better than both of them?
Magiclover318 says... #2
Well I like Underworld Connections because of the two black devotion it gives. That is the main reason why it is played.
As for Thoughtseize vs Duress , I agree, they both have their spots. But I always mainboard Thoughtseize because I always find something worth losing two life to get rid of, especially turn one.
The way I see it is, if they keep their opening hand. they must have something amazing in there. So I wanna get rid of whatever it is.
Duress is an amazing card but often underlooked, getting rid of Sphinx's Revelation or Planeswalkers or whatever you don't want them to have. Again it sucks against creatures but that's its only downfall.
March 6, 2014 8:48 a.m.