Thoughts on Illness in the Ranks for SB?
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 31, 2014, 9:07 a.m. by harrydemon117
I've been seeing more and more decks using Assemble the Legion against control decks or even as main deck win cons. This paired with Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Precinct Captain makes me think we will be seeing more and more 1/1 token generators in the new meta.
What are your thoughts on decks using black to sideboard Illness in the Ranks in against these rising threats?
We are already seeing Master of Waves and Elspeth, Sun's Champion making x/1 tokens, so would this be a good sideboard card anyway?
Depending on your local meta, this card should already be in your sideboard IMO.
January 31, 2014 9:16 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #4
Amen on Curse of Death's Hold . And we have had a 1 drop that deals with all of the pesky tokens and nobody has been using it. Maybe I will at Spring States this year and get to write an article on TCGPlayer why I used it after I win haha
But seriously, I'm thinking of cutting Ratchet Bomb over it as there are MORE 1/1 token creators than bigger tokens. I am running Grixis control right now and I could see them thinking "What the hell??? an enchantment?? What do I do now?"
It's like "thinking on the next level".
I've compiled a short list of cards that are played in the meta now that this would help against (not all of them at first, but eventually they will. also, these are in NO particular order)
Elspeth, Sun's Champion , Assemble the Legion , Pack Rat , Voice of Resurgence , Brimaz, King of Oreskos , Xenagos, The Reveler , Precinct Captain , Xathrid Necromancer , Master of Waves ,
I'm sure there are plenty others out there, but these are the most prevalent off of the top of my head
January 31, 2014 9:26 a.m.
There are however issues with running it, which is why it doesn't see play.
The biggest problem is you're not actually trading for a full card's worth of value on most of them. Elspeth, Sun's Champion still blows up the board. Brimaz, King of Oreskos is till a 3/4. Etc. While this can shut down a varying % of all of these cards power, you're putting yourself into card disadvantage on a lot of these. That's one less removal spells or threat that your draw must now make up for. Magic is a game fundamentally about trading resources, and Illness in the Ranks doesn't trade well.
Also, many of the decks already run solutions naturally. Whether it's Spear of Heliod , Detention Sphere , multiple Master of Waves , etc. The decks that are commonly running these tokens often have ways of dealing with Illness in the Ranks in their mainboard. So you're never quite in a gotcha situation where they are stone dead to this unusual sideboard tech.
Further, depending on the decks and situations, it's often incorrect to fight over these cards since once they are online you've missed your window for the game, and running this sideboard card actually hurt your chances.
January 31, 2014 12:36 p.m.
RussischerZar says... #6
The thing is that e.g. an Elspeth, Sun's Champion can't protect herself anymore with that on the field, so if she's using her -3 to protect her from the Desecration Demon on the field, she does absolutely nothing on the next 2 turns. And for an expensive threat like her that is pretty big.
January 31, 2014 12:44 p.m.
I thought about it early on myself, but one of my win con's is Elspeth, Sun's Champion and also later Pack Rat , I think the real problem is that most of the decks that would run this card are also hurt by it just as much.
January 31, 2014 2:27 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #8
MOST but not all ;)
I just look at it as a 'protective' card against a majority of the field. Against R/W aggro that is MORE THAN LIKELY going to sideboard Assemble the Legion
against you (and they will already be running Brimaz, King of Oreskos
and Precinct Captain
anyway) you're basically "neutering" their decks to vanilla vigilant creatures and those are easy enough to handle with spot removal.
I probably wouldn't bring it in against monoblue as the only card there I care about is Master of Waves and spot removal deals with him (and his tokens) effectively enough.
And as RussischerZar pointed out, it makes Elspeth, Sun's Champion a 6 mana white permanent that doesn't do anything effectively against a control deck. Pithing Needle is another option for the same CMC, but it doesn't DO anything against the already created 1/1 tokens that she has already produced.
I will have to do some testing for sure
January 31, 2014 3:04 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #9
That is IF your control deck doesn't run Elspeth in it...
PLUS I run Desecration Demon as a win con in mine so they can't keep saccing the stupid 1/1 tokens to keep tapping it...eventually they will have to sac a REAL creature if they want him to stay tapped
January 31, 2014 3:07 p.m.
The question isn't whether or not the card has an effect, what you need to be asking is if that effect is worth a card. Illness in the Ranks still has to be a card in the deck, and you're down that resource when you cast it. This is often missed when evaluating cards.
For instance, stuff like "neutering" Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Precinct Captain is a horrible exchange. Sure, they are not army in a can any more, but you still left a 2/2 first striker and a 3/4 vigilant un-answered. You've effectively mulliganed to 6 that game.
Compare that to say bringing in an extra piece of removal. Not only does it stop the token production, it removes the source from play.
January 31, 2014 3:29 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #11
@Slycne: I agree with your assessment, but let's look at it from a continuing perspective:
Let's say that Brimaz, King of Oreskos
resolves and gets to attack (for whatever reason) and he gets to make his 1/1 token. If you later use removal on him, you are still left with the 1/1 token and need to use 2 removal spells in order to deal with both threats/resources. (-1 on card advantage).
If you use Illness in the Ranks from your opening hand, you are still down the -1 card advantage from having to spend 2 cards to deal with him, but the INVESTED card has now effectively dealt with multiple "token spawns" from him AND things like Assemble the Legion and other future "token spawners".
Instead of having to use a removal spell for each creature/token, you can take care of ALL tokens with Illness in the Ranks and limit your "disadvantages" as much as possible
January 31, 2014 4:20 p.m.
harrydemon117 Fair enough, but that assumes you are spending a premium spell like Hero's Downfall on a 1/1 token. Sure, there are sometimes when you will need to just to survive when you're at 1 life, but that token can generally be dealt with somewhere along the line that doesn't cost you a card.
I'd rather save my resources for the actual threats and with cards like Drown in Sorrow coming along you're likely to just sweep up them up any ways.
Maybe if Assemble the Legion starts becoming a larger presence, since the MBD deck is pretty soft to that, but I just think everything else you're better off killing with your removal. All things being equal, I'd much rather Hero's Downfall an Elspeth, Sun's Champion or Brimaz, King of Oreskos and leave behind 3 tokens than have Illness in the Ranks for them and no immediate way to remove them.
January 31, 2014 4:34 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #13
Oh i would too....but if you use Hero's Downfall on a resolved Elspeth, Sun's Champion or Xenagos, The Reveler you STILL have to deal with the token and you lose the attrition battle of card advantage.
I probably won't bring it in unless I suspect a boarded Assemble the Legion as I'm pretty soft to it as well, but I would like to know how it fares against other "threats" as well. Only time will tell :)
RussischerZar says... #2
In a competitive setting I think this is a pretty much baller sideboard card. I wonder why no one uses it. A pity that Curse of Death's Hold is not legal anymore :P
January 31, 2014 9:15 a.m.