Thragtusk: How to Play Against Him.
Standard forum
Posted on Dec. 11, 2012, 9 p.m. by Fleetfiend
Let's face it. Thragtusk is everywhere. He's in Bant Control. He's in Jund Midrange. He's in 4C Rites. He's in Selesnya Midrange. Pretty much every deck that can fit him with the colors has him in most standard meta, except for those poor folk who can't afford him (like me, if I hadn't gotten lucky and pulled a few that have since been traded).
The question is: how do you play against the dreaded Thrag?
There's always counterspells, Oblivion Ring (though he still enters and leaves), etcetera, but he's definitely a tough cookie to crack.
What are some general cards/strategies that you would suggest when facing off against Thragtusk in most standard meta?
whallybu49 says... #3
hmm I would use Nevermore or Slaughter Games , because they make sure that the opponent can't use their Thragtusk s. Against Bant Control, this is crippling because that is usually their only saving grace if they are having their faces beaten in by Aggro decks.
December 11, 2012 9:06 p.m.
I was playing B/R mid-range, and this guy was playing Bant Control. He had yet to play anything but land, so I played Slaughter Games to get rid of his Thragtusk . He got really mad when he showed me his hand, as he kept an opener of 2 Thragtusk and 5 lands. Quick and easy win from there
December 11, 2012 9:09 p.m.
Fleetfiend says... #5
So in other words, you're usually okay as long as you aren't running mono-green. xD
December 11, 2012 9:10 p.m.
Well even with green, you could use Garruk, Primal Hunter and just spawn token after token.
December 11, 2012 11:09 p.m.
don't forget Rakdos Keyrune if you're playing BR. 3 power with first strike does nicely. If they don't have a creature for it to block, then you just ramped. Not bad.
December 12, 2012 12:38 a.m.
SwiftDeath says... #9
yeah that would be my choice as well seeing as it is a card that can hit for 3 and survives Sever the Bloodline , Terminus , Bonfire of the Damned , Mizzium Mortars and Supreme Verdict
December 12, 2012 12:49 a.m.
Fleetfiend says... #10
Rakdos Keyrune is nice, but I'm not sure that is solves the real issue with Thragtusk ... the flickering. If Thrag isn't attacking or blocking, he can still be blinked.
December 12, 2012 1:41 a.m.
The only way i've really been playing "around" him is to go "thru" him via Silverblade Paladin or Ajani, Caller of the Pride + Rancor ... basically keep smashing them for enough dmg where the 5 life gain becomes irrelevant. The card is pretty ridiculous mostly because of how ez he fits into almost any deck. If he'd cost 3GG i think it would've been a lot better for standard in general.
December 12, 2012 9:17 a.m.
Fleetfiend says... #12
Yeah, I agree with Ammo777. He should either have been 3GG or have been a mythic rare, perhaps. xD
December 12, 2012 12:37 p.m.
anotherbomb says... #13
Thrag is annoying but he's really not a huge game ender unless he starts to get flicker abused. My main deck is br zombies and I'll usually just remove him like anything else that I don't like on the field. He only makes a huge difference if I'm racing g/w aggro and he lands the turn before I need to do terminal damage or lose. I don't understand why thragtusk has everyone concerned when I feel like geralf's messenger it's equally as ridiculous, just more niche due to his mana cost.
December 17, 2012 2:42 a.m.
Well, card:Geralf's Messenger is a pretty awesome card, but he's also kept in check by his cost. Whereas stated above, Thragtusk is damn near everywhere because of his cost. That's the huge difference. Imagine if Messenger only cost 2B... O.o
I don't mind making a powerful card, but defining a format around a deck using a single card or how to get around said single card just sucks.
December 18, 2012 10:55 a.m.
planeswalk says... #15
I agree with ammo777. I usually play the first round to see what there deck is dependant on then then sideout my Slaughter Games . And remove their corner stone so it doesnt even have a chance to fight. The thing about meta decks is you know what to expect. And therefore can take counter measures against it. Decks that rely on a single card are good and bad. Good for me bad for the person that uses them. My vampire deck is constantly evolving. And it stays under the radar because vampire decks arent popular. So no one pays attention to me at tournaments then the get surprised when they get beat. I've been playing at a local card store and can tell you what each player has in his or her deck. The only thing that they could tell you about me is that I play vampires. Honestly Thragtusk is a cheap shot and takes the element of skill out of that players deck. Shoot for originallity when making a deck and break the mold.
December 24, 2012 7:54 p.m.
My favorite answer to Thragtusk in standard, by far, is Tamiyo, the Moon Sage . If you want to deny them value, Tamiyo is a good way to keep tusk from leaving the field; another good option that I've used in sideboards against thragtusk-heavy and generally midrangey decks is Feeling of Dread to tempo them out and win with the tusk still on the table.
December 25, 2012 1:27 a.m.
Fleetfiend says... #17
Monduck I'm a bit confused. How does tapping stop him from being flickered?
December 25, 2012 1:34 a.m.
I've been using a playset of Thragtusk in almost every deck I've built since M13. I'm the Green Guy. What did you expect?
When I cast him and he resolves, then I honestly don't care what happens to him. He made it to the battlefield and, in doing so, gained me 5 life and all but guaranteed me a 3/3 token. I honestly don't mind things like Feeling of Dread and Tamiyo, the Moon Sage wasting time on my Thragtusk s. If Tamiyo is tapping it down, then she'll soon be changing targets to my bombs. Feeling of Dread is just a U/W Fog and just by your opponent casting it, you know they're running out of options. Because no one would cast Fog until they really need it, right? Right.
@PlanesWalk: Sounds to me like you don't own any Thragtusk s. Playing any card takes skill. Thragtusk , more so than Huntmaster of the Fells Flip , Silverblade Paladin , or Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , requires much skill. And just because I use Thragtusk doesn't mean I'm unoriginal. Next time you use a good card, I'll rag on you for net-decking. Thragtusk is amazing and he fits into virtually any Standard deck that has Green. However, I've never seen a deck that relies exclusively on Thragtusk as a do-or-die card. It's merely one of the best stepping stones in Standard, from early-game ramp/control to your fatties/bombs.
December 25, 2012 3:17 a.m.
planeswalk says... #19
Did you just compare Thragtusk to Huntmaster of the Fells Flip ? Ahahaha omg my sides! I don't want anything to do with Thragtusk period..
December 25, 2012 12:33 p.m.
Fleetfiend says... #20
Planeswalk, the difference between those two is the cost. Thragtusk can fit into many, many more decks than Huntmaster of the Fells Flip can, and you can flicker it back and forth must faster than you can with Huntmaster. Huntmaster is also a 2/2 wheras Thrag is 5/3. Both are good cards, but I feel like in standard Thragtusk is a bit of a bigger issue. xD
December 25, 2012 2:49 p.m.
@PlanesWalk: Good for you. Don't use Thragtusk and lose my Thragtusk s.
You can be original in deck-making and still use good cards.
December 25, 2012 4:09 p.m.
anotherbomb says... #22
I fought through about 10 thragtusks last gp trial (with only 8 players in the event), 5 in one game thanks to unburial rights but I find the games were won or lost based on other cards. The thragtusks I could play around. The sphynx's revelation, supreme verdicts, flipping huntmasters and miracled terminus's are actually what caused my losses. I was never to worried about thrag, even when bounced by resto angel.
If I was a green player I would totally play him, but I don't want to spend the money on a playset on top of the lands I would need to play him. I play b/r and I do just fine with my geralf's and aristocrats. Different strokes I suppose.
December 25, 2012 8:15 p.m.
Fleetfiend says... #24
Azure124 More like Slaughter Games . Because with Nevermore ... there's Acidic Slime , Naturalize , etcetera.
December 26, 2012 4:30 p.m.
No one runs Acidic Slime or enchantment hate, unless it's Erase for Rancor .
It's a cryin' shame, too, because Acidic Slime would be very powerful right now.
December 26, 2012 8:55 p.m.
Fleetfiend says... #26
I run Acidic Slime . forever alone
I've seen some decks based on land-destruction flickering with him. I'm honestly a bit surprised why more decks aren't running it.
Then again, maybe it's partially because of the GG.
December 26, 2012 10:09 p.m.
I'm confused as to how Thragtusk takes mores skill than any of the cards mentioned when you said in your post, "When I cast him and he resolves, then I honestly don't care what happens to him. He made it to the battlefield and, in doing so, gained me 5 life and all but guaranteed me a 3/3 token."
Huntmaster, Silver-Blade, Thragtusk, etc are all good cards... the issue is only one of them (read: Thragtusk) is defining the whole format around it. Which is why I won't touch the card either.
December 27, 2012 8:45 a.m.
So the only reason you guys aren't using Thragtusk is because he's good.
Man, you guys must really know how to build decks.
December 27, 2012 1:48 p.m.
@Fleetfiend: Not forever alone! high five
<3 Acidic Slime
There's really no reason to be scared away by anything's mana cost in Standard right now. Between Evolving Wilds , Core/Inni dual-lands, shock-lands, Farseek , and Chromatic Lantern , everything is playable (at least in terms of mana cost).
If this weren't true, you wouldn't see Garruk, Primal Hunter taking 3-color decks to Top 8 at tournaments 500+ people.
December 27, 2012 1:52 p.m.
I don't think Acidic Slime will see much play once gatecrash comes out because of treasury thrull
December 27, 2012 2:18 p.m.
I doubt Treasury Thrull will see any constructed play. For 6 mana, it either needs to end the game or save it for you.
December 27, 2012 4:12 p.m.
After you play it, you can spend all your mana for its extort cost which is about 6-7 damage to your opponent and 6-7 life for you. With one card, you created a 12-14 life difference. That's pretty good for me
December 27, 2012 4:51 p.m.
Never mind. Just reread the card. Ignore my comment :P
December 27, 2012 4:53 p.m.
Shrodinger says... #34
Wolfir Avenger should have been rare. That card is amazing and stops everything that isn't flying or trample. It also kills a very, very large amount of cards in the current meta.
December 27, 2012 6:54 p.m.
The biggest flaw with Wolfir Avenger is that it really costs 2GGG to cast. And that's usually too steep for any aggro deck or mid-range deck nowadays.
December 27, 2012 9:23 p.m.
Thragtusk is a great card I play Mono Red or Red Black and I have no problem with it. People act like its the god card thats really hard to counter but its easy as heck to get rid of it. Searing Spear Mizzium Mortars Oblivion Ring Rakdos Keyrune Brimstone Volley its easy to counter just depends if you have the cards in your deck or sideboard to take it on. But its normal for people to complain and whine when people find a way to overpower a card.
December 29, 2012 6:55 p.m.
The biggest thing that makes Thragtusk an amazing creature is the fact that it will always be a 2-for-1 spell. Sure, all of those cards get rid of it. But you neglected to mention how you deal with the follow-up Beast token. Because if you're playing RDW, me gaining 5 life and you having to waste 2 Searing Spear s all for 1 spell means you're suddenly either behind or simply not going to win the game.
December 29, 2012 9:44 p.m.
One of the best way to fight Thragtusk is to steal him with a conscripts and then sac him at the end of your turn. That is good when it works out but doesn't always happen! The easiest thing to do is probably just leave it and take to the skies! Angels for the win!!
December 29, 2012 10:40 p.m.
Due only to what I have seen at my shop Thragtusk really has sucked originality out of everyone. All but a few people play an Unburial Rites Thragtusk with flicker decks. With a couple of angles for late game. Not saying everyone does this but this happens every once in a while where a single power card attracts everyone and I just get tired of battling the same deck over and over. What happened to Snapcaster Mage ? Or tribals from the last block?
Sorry as for an answer for Thragtusk just I just use basic removal Tragic Slip usually like some others have said it really isn't a big fatty it's a great stepping stone. Save your good removal for thier game winners.
January 3, 2013 8:59 a.m.
You people are complaining about Thragtusk 's popularity like net-decking is a new thing. Clearly, you people have never played Standard when U/W Delver, Caw-Blade, and Jund (Alara) were decks.
Thragtusk has nothing on them.
January 3, 2013 3:19 p.m.
The difference here is that the list you made are deck types, not single cards. Delver of Secrets Flip , for example, required the deck to have a number of other cards that made it work well. Once Ponder and Mana Leak were out, so were Delver decks.
Thragtusk , on the other hand, does not require other cards... other than something that produces 1 green mana. True, it can be abused with a few 'flicker' effects, but it's also being splashed into virtually any Green deck where 5 mana is reachable on it's curve.
If Thragtusk has nothing on Delver of Secrets Flip people would still be playing with it... after all, it's still in standard, so people should be choosing it over Thragtusk , right?
January 3, 2013 3:56 p.m.
I said Thragtusk has nothing on U/W Delver, which (obviously) can't be built anymore. I'm comparing power levels here.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Vengevine were very similar to Thragtusk 's situation right now. Hell, in Legacy, any given deck with blue will be running Jace.
January 3, 2013 4:06 p.m.
Exactly!
You said that one card has nothing on a previous deck type. It's like saying that individual Apples have nothing on an Orchard of Oranges.
As well, if there were issues with single cards being so powerful (with no effort required behind their use) that they were that common before, doesn't mean that having that same issue with a current card should be ignored.
January 3, 2013 4:33 p.m.
You seem to be misconstruing my words or misunderstanding what you're saying.
You said "If Thragtusk has nothing on Delver of Secrets Flip people would still be playing with it... after all, it's still in standard, so people should be choosing it over Thragtusk , right?"
I never said Thragtusk was better than Delver of Secrets Flip .
And, if nothing else, doesn't the fact that cards have been powerful in the past mean that Thragtusk 's presence is nothing special or over the top? It's just this season's poor man's excuse to rag on Standard. If you have Thragtusk , you use him and love him. If you don't, then everyone who does is a net-decker and has no taste or originality.
That's all I'm getting from this entire thread.
January 3, 2013 4:37 p.m.
Use whatever the current equivalent of Control Magic or Sower of Temptation is to benefit from your friends and rivals who have the money to afford him.
January 3, 2013 4:43 p.m.
Fleetfiend says... #46
It's not so much that we are complaining about Thrag, but it's more of a discussion on how to deal with him since he is so popular in standard.
I have no problem playing against him; but I suppose I'm a bit of a magic hipster in that I personally don't want to use him BECAUSE everyone else is. In fact, it's almost nice to know something you can expect to show up in 90% of green decks built by people that can get a hold of him.
It's totally fine for you to defend Thrag, zandl, but I feel like you are blowing this thread a bit put of proportion.
The question still remains; how to deal with him, since he's so widely used. I do feel like the mana cost of the card makes it easier to play than it should be, but by no means do I think he is outrageous.
January 3, 2013 5:21 p.m.
I played in my first tournament last Monday using a G/W exalted-double strike deck: Not so Exalted Apoptosis -please help! and in the 2nd and 3rd rounds came up against G/W ramp decks with nasties like Thragtusk Restoration Angel Armada Wurm and Wolfir Silverheart .
To be honest, I got lucky to get a draw on round 2 and got smacked bad in round 3.So what's the best way to handle these guys if your playing G/W (and assume you don't want to play the exact same deck)?
I have reworked my above deck to this: deck:exalted-apoptosis-v2. I've decided to sideboard 4x Intrepid Hero as a way to just kill these damn things as fast as they come out (also have Oblivion Ring in there too, but that wasn't enough for me to win last time out). Thoughts?
The other way I was thinking about going was altering my G/W deck to a G/W/B and add Clone (copy them and then take advantage by pairing to my Silverblade Paladin ), take it one step further with Infinite Reflection to give yourself even more, and Essence Scatter to counter them (but opponent had Cavern of Souls so in my case last time that wouldn't have helped).
DaCeltics says... #2
Removal, removal, and a little bit more removal just in case. I use anything from Searing Spear , Sever the Bloodline . Detention Sphere . Oblivion Ring , Brimstone Volley , and sometimes Slaughter Games . Best way to deal with him though, is counterspells like Essence Scatter or Essence Backlash
December 11, 2012 9:06 p.m.