Unloved Card that seems good
Standard forum
Posted on March 30, 2016, 5:52 p.m. by Bellock86
Hey Everyone,
First off I apologize if this is the wrong forum but I'm speculating on what a certain card will do so it was my logical choice.
I'm very confused that a particular card has seen no play in any format.
I'm talking about Overwhelming Denial. I get that it costs 4 to hard cast but this thing seems legit to me. Allow me to explain
1) it's a hard counter
2) you're really never gonna cast this for full cost and [U][U] isn't that rough. Note that suge says " if you've CAST another spell this turn.
3) (And this is my main point) it can't be freaking countered.
I understand that the surge ability means at best this costs 2 and there will be times that you need to counter and this will be the only thing in your hand and that might hurt but this thing is an all star in counter wars. Wanna counter my bomb? Well I countered your counter for UU and there ain't crap you can do about it.
Can someone offer counter points that I'm missing that makes this card so undesirable that it's only 38 cents each?
Now the speculation part. Might this card be better in new standard after SOI drops into the fold? I think so but I'm not the best at theorizing card usage changes.
GoldGhost012 says... #3
I think the main issue is that you need enough one-drop instants so that you can always cast this as the Counterspell. This is very hard in Standard.
March 30, 2016 6:02 p.m.
omnipotato says... #4
It's a 4-mana Cancel unless you're playing a lot of 1-drop instants as GoldGhost012 said. Then it's just Cancel (
+ 1 mana for the instant = 3 cmc).
March 30, 2016 6:30 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #5
This would've seen play.... if Splinter Twin wasn't banned.
March 30, 2016 6:35 p.m.
Randomdeath says... #6
Also Counterflux does it better. Granted it has the one more 
but its four cost version does so much more.
March 30, 2016 6:40 p.m.
omnipotato says... #7
No format (excluding Legacy, but this card in Legacy would be a joke) plays a lot of counterspells at the moment. The fact that Overwhelming Denial can't be countered is pretty much irrelevant in Standard and Modern.
March 30, 2016 6:45 p.m.
Yeah the biggest issue is scatter is kind of just better and no one is trying to counter your threat because no one is playing control so most of the time its a 4 mana counter spell
March 30, 2016 7:14 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #9
How often do you get into counter wars in standard (and to a further extent modern) that "can't be countered" on a counterspell is actually relevant? whenever those words appear on a card, people only care when it's on a permanent. For example, Loxodon Smiter saw a lot of play when it was standard, at the same time when control was a very large threat in the meta game. Not only was Smiter a very efficient body, it also couldn't be countered, which meant it was guaranteed to hit the battlefield at the VERY earliest on turn two.
March 30, 2016 7:37 p.m.
Even in control mirrors, I'd rather have Negate or even Dispel in standard. Not digging this. The last time wizards truly fucked up and printed an outstanding counterspell was in Swan Song. Before that, uhhh... Mental Misstep? Remand? I have no clue off the top of my head. Overwhelming Denial is pretty much unplayable.
March 30, 2016 7:41 p.m.
GoldGhost012, omnipotato, and fluffybunnypants- thanks for the feedback. And those points do make sense for standard. That was kind of my theory on why it doesn't see play there.
What about Modern? Legacy even?
I'll pretend that Counterflux was brought up in jest but just in case.
CF is a choice between 3 mana hard counter, can't be countered with a 2 color casting requirement (which makes it more restrictive) or a 4 mana counter all of the opponent's things on the stack that really won't ever be relevant outside of EDH Multiplayer.
Okay but not amazing.
OD is a "choice" between 4 cmc counter can't be countered or 2 cmc hard counter can't be countered and both of those are only 1 color making it slightly more versatile.
I'm not saying that it is 4 of material. But two copies to protect you casting your bomb or other win condition?
how is that a bad thing? Especially in a format where efficient non restricted (meaning instant or sorcery only etc.) hard counters are sort of hard to come by (standard) or if modern to shut the gap in counter wars. Legacy I know very little about. So I really can't say if it would be even remotely acceptable given how fast it tends to be
March 30, 2016 8:38 p.m.
Wow so apparently I never hit the post button. Never go full derp
March 30, 2016 10:12 p.m.
In my opinion there is enough good counters in legacy and vintage. In modern, decks are not interactive enough after splinter twin bannings. I could only see overwhelming denial in EDH because of more ressources available (even then I'd prefer Arcane Denial, Flusterstorm or Dispel).
March 31, 2016 6:05 a.m.
SimonCalabuig - I had seen the card before and have always wondered why it was so frowned upon or considered garbage but then I kind of forgot about it.
That being said I opened one 2 days ago which reminded me. Lol
I'm probably still gonna pick up a couple. Can't hurt to test just to see what I can do with it.
March 31, 2016 10:37 a.m.
Randomdeath says... #17
As a storm player I don't see running this. We are not really worried about counter spells once we start going off and if you stopping us early we don't have the mana to counter anyway(usually).
March 31, 2016 12:35 p.m.
omnipotato says... #18
I think the problem here is that OP is not understanding that the surge cost is effectively 3 (or more). Most of the time in a control deck, you're keeping mana up to react to what your opponent plays. Even if you fill your deck with 1-mana instants, and you can cast them for value, you have to keep 3 mana up to use Overwhelming Denial with surge, not 2. Even then, say you have Lightning Bolt and Overwhelming Denial in hand and 3 mana up. The opponent casts a spell that you want to counter. The only way you can is to cast both Lightning Bolt and Denial. However, maybe the opponent doesn't have any creatures in play or none that can be killed with Bolt. In a control deck, you never want to point burn spells at the opponent, but in this case you're forced to. So you're pretty much getting two-for-oned with your own spell.
March 31, 2016 1:31 p.m.
omnipotato - while I do understand the 3 mana at best point I think the most blatant example of why it's not as good as it seems is your Lightning Bolt example.
Having to do something you don't want to do to MAKE a spell good is bad. It's not like Delve milling away cards you no longer need. That's a much clearer example. Thank you for that
March 31, 2016 2:39 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #20
The reason this is not good is because there's a card called Remand which can counter this spell by targeting the spell you're trying to counter with this.
April 2, 2016 1:30 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat - I'm well aware that Remand exists. I was playing when it was first printed.
Epochalyptik says... #2
This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum(auto-generated comment)
March 30, 2016 5:58 p.m.