U/W Heroic Anyone?
Standard forum
Posted on Nov. 17, 2014, 8:39 a.m. by eatyourbabes
I have been dabbling with making an Azorious post RtR for some time now, and after watching Tom Ross take 3rd at SCG Columbus I realize that this is a legitimate competitive deck now.
I'm looking at certain cards that did not get played consistently by pros that I think might go really well in the deck. Daxos of Meletos, Artisan of Forms, Fabled Hero, and Wavecrash Triton. Are any of these cards viable in this new competitive deck? I know that Fabled Hero isnt new to the competitive world, but I've read that mayn people are uncertain about including it because of its mana cost and vulnerablility as a result. Personally I think that Daxos of Meletis just looks like a sweet card. Throw an Aqueous Form or buff him up once or twice on him and boom you're exiling cards and playing them as your own, assuming your have enough mana.
What do YOU think? Is UW Heroic here to stay? What cards do you think are vital to the deck?
I've played with Tom's version of the deck for about a week (also played with some U/W Heroic last year). It's fun to play, and I do think it'll remain competitive even after it becomes more well known.
I don't think any of those card really add to the game plan. The deck runs very low to the ground, and adding in more three CMC creatures makes it difficult to protect your board. Daxos of Meletis has some evasion, but you're relying on the opponent's deck, and he doesn't have heroic. As tempting as it is to want to steal spells, I'm just not sure that's what you want to be doing here. Artisan of Forms has a similar problem but is even more restrictive. Fabled Hero seems like a trap; you can just make your Favored Hoplite into a monster without needing to have it hit twice. Jacob Van Lunenseen has Wavecrash Triton in the sideboard of his version, so there are advocates for him. It doesn't seem good enough to me, but I can see some of the benefits: he survives the cheap burn spells and helps push through a clogged ground.
I've never played Tom's infect deck, but from watching him play it, these two decks seem to play out similarly. It's an aggressive list, but you want to be patient and pick your spots to try to push things through. Try to leave up protection mana.
Vital cards in the deck:
Cards that I'm almost always happy to have:
Cards I'm not completely sold on:
The 22nd land
Going forward, I wouldn't be surprised if Stubborn Denial or Treasure Cruise start to find a place in the main board (that might just be the 
in me talking though).
November 17, 2014 9:26 a.m.
I like UW heroic and I think it is really good WHEN it works the inly problem is you need so many gods willingd and you cab only run 4 therr are other things thst work too in it for safety and evasion but only so much.
November 17, 2014 9:27 a.m.
lightcarrier says... #5
I've been running U/W Heroic since a while now. When RTR was still in, I could profit from an Aqueous Formed Heroic dude with a ciphered Hidden Strings, and let me tell you: games were short.
Now with RTR out and KOT in, we have to try a new approach. At first I didn't like Prowess that much when compared to Heroic, but now I see that the two of them are great together, in the sense that they are somewhat complementary. Let me explain:
When you have a Heroic creature (let's say Favored Hoplite) AND a Prowess creature (such as Seeker of the Way) on board, you get huge benefit from every good Aura or Instant spells you cast. Just cast everything on the Hoplite for the +1/+1 counters, and the Seeker will have +1/+1 until end of turn.
I am currently working on this with Enlightened Phalanx. Although I know that I can get to the top 5 at FNMs with plain Heroic decks, I have yet to see how this combination fares.
Aside from Favored Hoplite (must!), the creatures can vary a lot from deck to deck. What is certain is that you need lots of protection spells to work against the opponent's removal; a full playset of Gods Willing is mandatory, along with some Feat of Resistance and maybe some Ajani's Presence. Ephemeral Shields would work too, but I never tried them. I recommend at least 7 protection spells in your deck. I usually run 9. I've seen people run 12. Redundancy isn't that much of a problem here, because if you do lose your now huge creature, you will have a hard time getting another back up.
Also, you need to draw more cards to get your protection spells rolling. Aqueous Form helps a lot with scrying, but isn't enough. Defiant Strike is great. If you run blue, I strongly recommend a full playset of Ordeal of Thassa. Finally, you may add some more drawing spells if need be, as long as it triggers Heroic. Examples are Stratus Walk, Fate Foretold, Chosen by Heliod.
Finally, if your build includes a fair number of Auras, Hero of Iroas is a must-have.
Let me know what you think of all this, and may your heroes bring victory!
November 17, 2014 9:37 a.m.
eatyourbabes says... #6
Another card that I've seen thrown into a U/W deck is Triton Tactics, I think it's a good idea however it is going to be very situational, however it is very nice to be able to swing and then not have to worry about being open for damage the next turn.
November 17, 2014 9:58 a.m.
eatyourbabes says... #7
Also with the full sets of Ordeal of Thassa and Defiant Strike as well as Stratus Walk and maybe even Treasure Cruise, it feels like drawing cards is a huge deal. Does that mean that one or two Chasm Skulkers would be very good in this deck?
November 17, 2014 10:09 a.m.
Does anyone think that Outlast creatures, namely Abzan Falconer or Ainok Bond-Kin, could be relevant in U/W Heroic? You wouldn't even have to pump the outlast creatures for a huge benefit for your main creatures.
November 17, 2014 noon
Phantomize says... #9
I've been messing with uw heroic for quite a while now and I've.made some changes. Eidolon of Countless Battles didn't seem that great so i cut it completely. Singing Bell Strike was too situational so I moved it to the main board and added a Stubborn Denial and a Treasure Cruise. Having them in the main gives me an advantage over certain matchups. To play this deck you really want to think of this as a combo deck. You want to keep hands of creatures, auras, and protection. I like the idea of Triton Tactics so I'll test it in the side. I love the deck though and I plan to make this my main deck.
November 17, 2014 12:12 p.m.
@Phantomize Your thoughts match up with my own. The Eidolon seems like a really good idea with Hero of Iroas, but I've found myself too often with it in hand and not wanting to cast it if I had any other reasonable lines of play.
November 17, 2014 12:23 p.m.
eatyourbabes says... #11
yugimon4 some of the abzan creatures do sound like they would go pretty well with this deck but putting them in means taking out something else that will generate counters. If I were to put in any of those cards though I'd probably go with Ainok Bond-Kin since it gives first strike which is always awesome and it has a relatively low mana cost. Abzan Battle Priest doesn't sound too bad either with the lifelink ability.
November 17, 2014 2:37 p.m.
Phantomize says... #12
@jr92_2000 I always wanted something better then Eidolon of Countless Battles and I would side them out almost every game. Same With Singing Bell Strike. But the inclusion of a Stubborn Denial and Treasure Cruise really help smooth the deck out. Right now, I just need to find ways to beat certain matchups. Any sideboard ideas/how to side with this deck?
November 17, 2014 5:19 p.m.
eatyourbabes says... #13
Phantomize what are some of the difficult matchups for this deck that you have encountered?
November 17, 2014 7:26 p.m.
I don't have a firm idea how to sideboard yet as I'm still pretty new to the deck. Here is roughly what I have been doing (or have thought about doing). I haven't played all of these matchups yet; some of this may just be the wrong way to approach the match.
Abzan:
In: +3 Stubborn Denial; +1 Treasure Cruise; +1 Ajani's Presence; +1 Aqueous Form
Out: -3 Seeker of the Way; -1 Singing Bell Strike; -1 Ordeal of Heliod; -1 Defiant Strike
GB/Abzan Constellation:
In: +2 Erase; +1 Aqueous Form; +1 Treasure Cruise
Out: -2 Feat of Resistance; -1 Ordeal of Heliod; -1 Seeker of the Way
Green Devotion:
In: +1 Aqueous Form
Out: -1 Ordeal of Heliod
Jeskai Fireworks:
In: +3 Stubborn Denial; +2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer; +1 Treasure Cruise; +1 Ordeal of Heliod; +1 Seeker of the Way
Out: -2 Eidolon of Countless Battles; -1 Stratus Walk; -2 Favored Hoplite; -2 Defiant Strike; -1 Aqueous Form
Jeskai Ascendancy:
In: +3 Stubborn Denial; +2 Erase
Out: -2 Feat of Resistance; -1 Ordeal of Heliod -1 Aqueous Form; -1 Gods Willing
Mardu:
In: +3 Stubborn Denial; +2 Ajani's Presence; +2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer; +2 Treasure Cruise
Out: -2 Eidolon of Countless Battles; -1 Stratus Walk; -1 Singing Bell Strike; -2 Feat of Resistance; -1 Ordeal of Heliod; -2 Favored Hoplite
Boss Sligh:
In: +3 Stubborn Denial; +2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer; +1 Ordeal of Heliod; +1 Seeker of the Way
Out: -2 Eidolon of Countless Battles; -1 Stratus Walk; -1 Aqueous Form; -2 Feat of Resistance; -1 Favored Hoplite
U/B Control:
In: +3 Stubborn Denial; +1 Ajani's Presence; +2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer; +2 Treasure Cruise
Out: -1 Stratus Walk; -1 Singing Bell Strike; -1 Ordeal of Heliod; -2 Favored Hoplite; -1 Aqueous Form; -1 Heliod's Pilgrim; -1 Seeker of the Way
Temur:
In: +1 Stubborn Denial; +1 Aqueous Form; +2 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
Out: -1 Ordeal of Heliod; -1 Defiant Strike; -2 Favored Hoplite
November 17, 2014 7:27 p.m.
@eatyourbabes I've found the Mardu matchup to be tough. Crackling Doom is the biggest problem card, but the ability to lifelink, sweep the board, and drop Elspeth doesn't help either.
November 17, 2014 7:31 p.m.
OP_Magikarp says... #16
Only problem I see is any type of removal in the beginning because it DOES still take a little bit of time to build up your creatures. Bile Blight or other quick burn spells could be a killer and leave you with a hand of no creatures.
November 17, 2014 7:50 p.m.
eatyourbabes says... #17
I think the biggest thing to overcome for this deck is being able to overcome early game removal and removal in general. Gods Willing, Ajani's Presence, and Feat of Resistance are the answers to this problem, however in order to answer that problem of removal you need to have these in hand to do so.
Another card that I've seen included in the deck list every once in a while is Ephemeral Shields, the convoke helps reduce the casting cost, but at the same time there isn't a ton of value in the card when compared to Ajani's Presence.
November 17, 2014 10:52 p.m.
Phantomize says... #18
eatyourbabes The hardest matchups for me are ub control, temur, and mardu. Any abzan or jeskai build is usually a decent match, it just depends on my draws. I think the reason it's hard for me is because I don't know if i'm approaching a each matchup the right way. Or I could be playing the deck entirely wrong.
November 18, 2014 12:33 a.m.
robotwalle says... #19
Lets not forget about Battle Mastery. The double strike is amazing as a finisher (especially with Aqueous Form) and it deserves a spot as a 2-of. It effectivley serves as a Fabled Hero but easier to cast and can come out of nowhere. Also, Seeker of the Way is the answer to other aggro decks. If we outgain them early game with him, then later we can easily win. Crackling Doom is the problem child though. How to deal with that effectivley is an issue.
November 18, 2014 3:49 p.m.
lightcarrier says... #21
robotwalle --- I included some Negates in my sideboard in case of Crackling Doom. Not effective as much as reactive, but that's all I can think of.
As for Triton Fortune Hunter, I always wanted to play it but never found him to deserve a spot over other cards. Yet.
November 18, 2014 4:41 p.m.
robotwalle says... #22
I agree with all of what you said. I love the idea of card draw, but counters are better. Also, negate will have to do. I miss Dispel. :(
November 18, 2014 4:42 p.m.
We just have much better ways to draw cards. Ordeal of Thassa might be the best card in the deck, Defiant Strike is a cantrip that pumps your guys, and if you need more card draw, just board in some Treasure Cruise.
Triton Fortune Hunter would need to get +1/+1 counters in addition to the card draw for him to be of any use.
November 18, 2014 6:53 p.m.
robotwalle says... #24
What cards does UW heroic need in the next set to become more competitive?
November 18, 2014 7:07 p.m.
I'm not sure if there is much to hope for in the rest of the block. I doubt we'll get a counterspell more relevant than Stubborn Denial or auras more useful than what we got during THS block. A Brave the Elements reprint might be useful (even if it doesn't target). Adarkar Wastes would be a nice addition to the mana base if it's reprinted in M16.
For this to remain a viable archetype, removal has to remain overcosted and midrange has to continue to reign.
November 18, 2014 7:30 p.m.
eatyourbabes says... #26
To make UW heroic better, the next set could include some more protection instants as well as some more aura's to help further what it is already doing. A few other good white or blue prowess creatures will also help the deck a lot. Prowess fits perfectly with the heroic mechanic because you're using your heoric targets efficiently to also trigger the prowess abilities.
I think to answer the question it's important to look at not just the deck itself, but the other decks it's going to face. Like jr92_2000 said, this deck needs pricey removal and mid range to remain effective. WIth that being said this next set needs to offer mid range some tid bits to remain the best option and to keep people playing it, but at the same time it can't create any cheap removal like a new Doom Blade or Go for the Throat. UW heroic is just going to need a few more tools to utilize to really hit that next level effectiveness. I see that happening by more prowess creatures, more auras, and honestly a UW multicolored creature or spell that would fit the profile would really help as well.
TL;DR UW needs the rest of the format to remain around the same style and receive a few more good enchantments and maybe some prowess
November 19, 2014 10:57 a.m.
Phantomize says... #27
Yeah I think mardu is by far the hardest matchup for me because of Crackling Doom.
November 19, 2014 7:47 p.m.
robotwalle says... #28
Crackling Doom demands you play the deck differently and its annoying. Recently I have only lost to mardu decks because of this and Goblin Rabblemaster+Seeker of the Way
November 19, 2014 9:29 p.m.
eatyourbabes says... #29
would it be a smart move to sideboard Aegis of the Gods to counter Crackling Doom or maybe even just run more Stubborn Denial, Negate, or Swan Song?
November 19, 2014 10:22 p.m.
Dalektable says... #30
I love getting paired up against U/W Heroic so much. Two for one's and better all day long...it's the dream. Back that with hard lifegain with seeker and Butcher of the Horde...man, it's a dream match up. Bless the magic god's for printing Crackling Doom.
November 19, 2014 10:23 p.m.
lightcarrier says... #31
eatyourbabes -- Counterspells are the way to go, since Aegis of the Gods doesn't prevent Crackling Doom from happening. (It doesn't target.)
Hickorysbane says... #2
Without having seen the decklist you're talking about or having played it I can't tell you specific cards, but there are plenty of pieces. I've been saying that to some friends of mine since Theros came out. But I just haven't been able to bring myself to play Azorious Aggro, it's just feels....weird. But yes, I'm sure you could make a least a semi-competitive deck. The eight one mana protection spells (Gods Willing and Ajani's Presence) will really help some match-ups.
November 17, 2014 8:58 a.m.