Was this legal?
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 25, 2014, 8:09 p.m. by Pixonova
So I put together a green red monsters deck Thursday morning in preparation for FNM yesterday. Played extremely well with my friends.
Anyways, Round 1 I lost to mono-green pretty handily. The ramp was way to fast and he had a T5 Worldspine Wurm. I was OK with that one.
Second round is where it got iffy and I was not happy. This kid was a fan of Lotleth Troll and Bow of Nylea combo.
So he had this combo out, and I had Polukranos, World Eater . Lotleth was a 4/4. He targeted my Xenagos, Which would of killed it. I declared blockers and passed priority to him. He said he had nothing. I said OK, Polukranos dies, so does your guy. Asked if he had any responses and he said no. He then proceeds to sac 2 creatures, says Lotleth is a 6/6, and keeps it on the field without tapping mana. Then tells me I need to take 2 damage to Xenagos, killing it, and 4 trample damage to me.
I was hesitant to call the judge over because he was busy on the other side of the store and it was only him that night, so I asked the guy that was watching us if it was legal or not and he said yeah it's a rule of deathtouch.
Won my third match 2-0. Then I went up against a dollar store esper where his win-con was Daxos of Meletis . He punched through me with aqueous form, and exiled a land from my library. He then played my land since he said he didn't play one that turn. I told him I don't think that's how it works, but he started getting heated with me. I was going to call the judge, but of course, busy with the middle school crowd. Are you able to play lands like that with Daxos?
What would you have done if you encountered players like these? They got really heated and angry when I questioned that play, and I just wanted to get away from them at that point.
Probably won't be going to that LGS anymore due to the crowd it draws in, and go to the one closer to me.
Ohthenoises says... #3
Right from Daxos' gatherer page: "9/15/2013 If the exiled card is a land card, you wont gain any life and you wont be able to play the land."
As a clarification when you say he "sacrifices" creatures, was he indeed sacrificing them? Or discarding them? Big difference since he COULD discard 2 cards to save his troll but if they were in play that doesn't work.
Either way, that's not how damage to a walker is, it's all or nothing, he can't direct 2 to a walker and the rest to you, he has to pick.
January 25, 2014 8:24 p.m.
CardsAndStuff says... #4
I'm not exactly sure what the first scenario means, if he was trying to say that he can, with one attacking creature, hit both you and your planeswalker, then that's incorrect. But I'm not confident that that's what you mean.
As for the second story, he can play a land he exiles off the top of your library with Daxos of Meletis .
January 25, 2014 8:24 p.m.
Unfortunately with standard being the largest and most accessible format, it has a lot more potential to draw in unsavory folks. The best you can do is stay calm, don't let their bad attitude get to you.
Also, unless I am misunderstanding what the situation was, you cannot trample over a planeswalker to the player. In the case of trample and deathtouch, the creature need only assign 1 damage to each blocking creature since that is lethal. Bear in mind each creature can only assign 1 damage for each point of power it has. So a 6/6 trample deathtouch would assign 1 damage to your creature, and then the rest would go to the planeswalker it attacked and you wouldn't take any.
In the case of playing lands off of Daxos, I don't think you can because it specifically says "cast."
January 25, 2014 8:25 p.m.
As far as I'm aware one does not "cast" lands as it says you may do with Daxos of Meletis , thus that would be an illegal play.
January 25, 2014 8:25 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Rules questions belong in the Q&A.
First, you don't target with attacks. You just attack.
Second, always call the judge if you aren't sure. They're there to help.
Third, trample damage never goes through a planeswalker to hit you. It only ever goes through to a planeswalker or a player, because the attack is only directed at a planeswalker or player.
Your opponent passed priority, so he had no right to activate Lotleth Troll 's ability after the game progressed to the combat damage step. Only after combat damage would he regain priority.
Furthermore, your opponent would still have to deal one damage to Polukranos, World Eater before he or she could trample through to Xenagos, The Reveler . In no case could damage go to you, though.
Your second opponent could not play the land card. Daxos of Meletis specifies that you may "cast" the exiled card. You can't cast lands. You play them.
When you have a rules question or any dispute with another player, CALL THE JUDGE. Do not be afraid to ask for a judge. Although your opponents were wrong in both cases, I cannot have sympathy for you; you opted not to ask the judge for the correct explanation.
January 25, 2014 8:29 p.m.
I just ask my opponents ahead of time whether or not a card will work. I'll reveal it from my hand, explain what I'm confused about, and we can generally work something out rules wise. Then again, my LGS is pretty friendly, so people aren't bad at all.
January 25, 2014 8:47 p.m.
Not looking for sympathy at all since you're right, Epochalyptik. I just wanted to get out of there and away from these people. Looking more for clarification since I didn't want to spend any more time in there than necessary. It was a 45 person FNM night, which is crazy for this place, and the owner was the only judge there. It's in a mall, so it draws all sorts of unsavory people.
Cardsandstuff, sorry, I meant to say discarded. Still new to the game.
Thanks for the clarification and advice. I'll definitely be trying to keep a cooler head if I ever do FNM at that store again.
January 25, 2014 8:56 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
I can't blame you for not wanting to go back if the atmosphere seems cramped, uncomfortable, or otherwise unwelcoming. But make sure you call a judge if you need one. Solving problems as they come up is much better than letting all the bad experiences build up and drive you out of an otherwise good store.
January 25, 2014 9 p.m.
brycecream says... #12
what epoch said.
also, it's worth calling a judge over so that the person knows how they misplayed, and also so they don't pull the same thing on others at the event. cuz if you do something on accident, that's one thing, but knowing it's wrong and trying it anyway is cheating.
January 25, 2014 9:17 p.m.
RussischerZar says... #13
Just to clarify on what Epochalyptik said: Attacks don't target, but you still have to announce what each creature is attacking; either the player or one of the Planeswalkers they control.
Also, Lotleth Troll would usually be either a 6/5 or a 7/6, not a 6/6.
January 25, 2014 9:58 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #14
I know others have said it, but I can't stress this enough. Always call a judge. For a big question, a small one, whatever. It's not being a jerk, it's not inconveniencing anyone, and hell you'll usually get a time extension if it ends up taking a while. There's no reason not to, and every reason to do it.
CharonSquared says... #2
In the first scenario, he's the active player. After you block, he has priority, and he can use Lotleth Troll's activated ability. If he doesn't, and you don't do anything either, then you've both passed priority so you go to the combat damage step. At this point, it's too late for him to activate the troll's ability. He assigns at least 1 damage to Polukranos, and up to three damage to Xenagos. You can't trample through a planeswalker to hit a player.
In the second scenario, whenever you're wondering how a specific card works, always check gatherer first. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373664Under "rulings" it says: 9/15/2013 If the exiled card is a land card, you wont gain any life and you wont be able to play the land.
January 25, 2014 8:23 p.m.