Ways to cheat in Ashen Rider?
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 18, 2013, 6:29 p.m. by actiontech
So I'm looking at Ashen Rider and loving the ETB/Die effect and wondering how to exploit it in standard. I'm looking specifically at Rescue from the Underworld but you need a way to get the rider into the graveyard initially. Anyone else thinking of decks like this? I feel like it's going to be the new, much meaner, version of Angel of Serenity . It just takes someone figuring out how to avoid the insane casting cost.
thataddkid says... #3
Jarad's Orders can tutor as well as dump him in your graveyard.
September 18, 2013 6:46 p.m.
Except that Rescue from the Underworld is an instant and can be used as a sac outlet in this situation. Not saying it's a better card overall, but Obzedat's Aid isn't strictly better than it.
You could also cycle Ashen Rider with it. Sadly it exile itself making recursion not so optimal.
September 18, 2013 6:59 p.m.
oh that is neat, Rescue from the Underworld just keeps getting better and better, love the flavor too, though im still not a fan of Ashen Rider and his mana cost, swear hes going to end up like Deathpact Angel .
September 18, 2013 7:03 p.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #7
Since you need to sacrifice a creature for Rescue from the Underworld , you can sacrifice an already cheated Ashen Rider through maybe Obzedat's Aid , and then select it as the reanimation target, and essentially it's 3 triggers in 2 turns if done right. That seems like a lot of fun, especially in EDH.
September 18, 2013 7:38 p.m.
actiontech says... #8
Yeah with rescue you can use it either way; sac him, or ETB him, or both. Gift of Immortality was on my radar as well, just hate to depend on an enchantment considering all the enchant hate people will be playing. Obzedat's Aid is a good card for this deck. Still need reliable sac or discard outlets though.
Deathpact Angel had very little upside. Ashen Rider exiles target permanent when it comes in or leaves. That's huge power, and I would very much like to exploit it.
September 18, 2013 7:43 p.m.
actiontech says... #9
I forgot to mention, I'd really prefer to stick with orzhov colors here. I feel like going 3 color is going to get really difficult for anyone not running green and a set of Sylvan Caryatid .
September 18, 2013 7:46 p.m.
Something like this?
I know it would need alot of polishing but its focus is clear
September 18, 2013 8:43 p.m.
dustypoo90 says... #11
probably would be good for a Junk colors deck. Green for some mana ramp into a fast Obzedat's Aid or Rescue from the Underworld . Then Cartel Aristocrat plus Gift of Immortality the next turn = auto win
September 18, 2013 11:28 p.m.
Cobthecobbler, that's not right. Targets are chosen before costs are paid when casting a spell, so the Ashen Rider on the battlefield cannot be chosen as Rescue from the Underworld 's target. Now if you had one Rider on the field and one in the graveyard, you'd get 3 triggers off that spell.
September 19, 2013 12:24 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #13
@Goody Targeting is declared during the process of putting the spell on the stack. Not before the card is cast. I'm not sure whose point this justifies but here:
114.1. Some spells and abilities require their controller to choose one or more targets for them.The targetsare object(s), player(s), and/or zone(s) the spell or ability will affect. These targets are declared as part of the process of putting the spell or ability on the stack. The targets can't be changed except by another spell or ability that explicitly says it can do so.
September 19, 2013 12:04 p.m.
actiontech says... #14
I think you couldn't, as part of the casting cost, sac Ashen Rider which goes immediately to your yard, then target it with this spell. Because of the way the resolution is worded "return that card AND the sacrificed creature to the battlefield" which implies it can't be the same creature. I'm sure wizards will rule on it in due course as people attempt exactly this exploit.
September 19, 2013 12:59 p.m.
@Cobthecobbler casting a spell has several steps, one of which is declaring the spell's targets. That step comes before the step where you pay costs.
Source; targeting occurs during 601.2c, costs are paid within 601.2e-g. 601.2h is when the spell is considered cast.
September 19, 2013 1:46 p.m.
There won't be a new ruling on this because it's already covered in the game's rules. They might put a reminder in Gatherer.
September 19, 2013 1:47 p.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #17
Ah, okay. When i was reading, I mistook announcing you had intentions to pay the costs as actually paying the costs.
September 19, 2013 10:16 p.m.
Imagine this combo.
1) Set up a Deadbridge Chant , preferably getting an Ashen Rider into the graveyard by deadbridge or your Commune with the Gods .2) Get an Elixir of Immortality or Bow of Nylea on the field. Use them to clean up the graveyard.3) Have a cartel aristocraft, sacrifice Ashen Rider each turn... each turn he comes back directly onto the battlefield thanks to Deadbridge Chant .
Squee with glee as you wipe out your opponents field.
January 26, 2014 6:29 p.m.
In my reanimator deck Hate Grave I'm comboing Ashen Rider with Eater of Hope and any of reanimate cards such as Fated Return or Rescue from the Underworld . Using the whip conditionally but still I'm finding ways still myself to try to break the rider
March 17, 2014 12:56 a.m.
Gift of Immortality +Whip of Erebos +second ability of Eater of Hope = one pissed of opponent and and infinite recycle of Ashen Rider not to mention the 3 permanents just wrecked in a turn and every turn after granted one has the board state to do so. Hard to pull off but offical broken :)
March 17, 2014 4:26 a.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #21
you could always build self mill with things to reanimate, potentially a lot more effective, since it can also help you cycle trough your deck to get all the necessary mana to reanimate, but if you go this route, splasing green may be necessary.
Jay says... #2
I'm going into reanimator come Theros using Post-Roast Esperanimator. The usually Standard Solar Flare, but with Crypt Ghast as back up for if they neuter my graveyard or something.
I'm also thinking about his synergy with Gift of Immortality ...
September 18, 2013 6:33 p.m.