What is stopping Grixis?
Standard forum
Posted on March 10, 2013, 7:05 p.m. by seevers35
I have seen very few Grixis Control Decks on StarCityGames.com's decklists or at my local FNM. I was wondering what you thought was preventing Grixis, and in particular Grixis Control, from being a Tier 1 deck.
Lack of white means no Supreme Verdict which helps against the aggro decks.
March 10, 2013 8:10 p.m.
T4 sweep is important in this meta. Grixis struggles. There is Mutilate but it's not a certain sweeper and it's hard to hit T4 with a lot of swamps.
March 10, 2013 8:22 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #6
Lack of effective wrath is really its main problem, speaking as a guy who runs it, though it can be GREATLY ameliorated with the right card choice. It hates RDW in particular.
March 10, 2013 8:37 p.m.
Ok, so we need a wrath. Mutilate I agree is not the answer. Is Rolling Temblor, Magmaquake, or Barter in Blood a possible solution? Currently I am running one of each in my version of Grixis Control and I am not sure one is truly better than the others.
March 10, 2013 8:47 p.m.
The problem is that they are all conditional. There's nothing like Supreme Verdict that just works every time.
March 10, 2013 8:55 p.m.
They are all options however they may not kill everything which is the essential part i.e. things like Hellrider or a very pumped Champion of the Parish which can go to 3+ on turn 2. I don't know your deck build but Barter in Blood isn't too effective if they can drop a lot of creature within the time it takes you to cast it. Magmaquake is the same thing, it is too slow without ramp. Rolling Temblor has a chance if you can turn two kill their x/3 creature with a searing spear or something but it is all very situational with grixis decks. The deck doesn't want to depend on situational, it wants to depend on consistency like most control decks. this is why I miss Black Sun's Zenith :(
March 10, 2013 8:56 p.m.
atreyujames says... #10
another thing that gives esper a good long game is Sphinx's Revelation. There is nothing better for stalling into the long game while milling out an opponent with Nephalia Drownyard
March 10, 2013 9:58 p.m.
detentionsphere says... #11
The lack of white means no reliable wraths, and without Sphinx's Revelation the deck just loses to midrange/control, since midrange overpowers it with value creatures and control... casts Sphinx's Revelation
March 13, 2013 2:38 a.m.
anotherbomb says... #12
Grixis is a very difficult deck to play right now, but I disagree with detentionsphere- I think it's very strong against control and midrange. It's amazing how Slaughter Games alone can really hose certain decks. I wouldn't play it if you like winning more than trying to build/pilot a difficult deck, and especially I'd you like your wins to be with with more than 3 life.
Mutilate could work as a sweeper if you played grixis as a more mbc deck with a red and blue splash, but then I'm not sure you wouldn't be better off playing b/r staff of win.
We'll see what dragons maze has to offer and if nothing stellar arises then we may just have to wait until after rotation to see grixis become super viable. Until then it's fun to try as there aren't any proven lists (yet!) to just netdeck and run.
March 14, 2013 2:45 a.m.
detentionsphere says... #13
I can see how Slaughter Games can really help in games 2 and 3... but I see it having a problem with, for example, Jund Midrange in game 1 - Thragtusk, Huntmaster of the Fells Flip, and Rakdos's Return all provide a ton of value that is hard to beat without Sphinx's. Also, out of curiosity, what would Grixis use as a win condition?
March 16, 2013 3:30 a.m.
anotherbomb says... #14
I use a full set of Olivia with keyrune ramp and a lotus just in case. Once she lands she can easily deal with value creatures, though getting her to stick can be difficult. I've also won by swinging with Rakdos Keyrune(also good against Thragtusk), and I have a single bolas, who doesn't really win but if/when he ults 9/10 times your opponent will scoop.
Good games usually involve an early Unsummon, Think Twice or Searing Spear into a t3 keyrune or Liliana, into a t4/5 Magmaquake or Rakdos's Return. Once I've drained their hand/board (whichever warrants more attention) I'll try to land Olivia and have her close it out. With removal and counter backup.
That's an ideal situation, sometimes you get a hand with one land and a bolas. Generally if you can lastpast turn 5 there's a chance youcan win.
March 16, 2013 4:04 a.m.
what do you guys think of this build grix up my sleeve?
March 16, 2013 2:14 p.m.
detentionsphere says... #16
I think the problem also is a lack of good sweepers. Grixis doesn't have a nice everything-dies card like Supreme Verdict - Magmaquake, while decent, hurts your own planeswalkers, can't kill flyers like Restoration Angel, and usually can't kill stuff like Flinthoof Boar or Loxodon Smiter until it is too late. What Grixis does have is awesome spot removal (Mizzium Mortars, Searing Spear, Ultimate Price, Victim of Night, Devour Flesh). Because of this I think the place of Grixis is not as a control deck, but as a midrange deck - controlling the early game with removal then landing a threat on turn 4-5 and riding it to victory. I think Lone Revenant would be ideal for a build like this.
March 16, 2013 3:48 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #17
There are also not that many people playing it, but yeah, I'd say no wrath is the main thing.
March 17, 2013 1:33 a.m.
Xindlepete says... #18
The first tri-color deck I ever made was my Bolas Beatdown. First I tried to focus more blue black with splash red to run control, but it proved very difficult. So I went back to what Bolas knows best: Cruel Control. Mantra: Just keep killing everything! The blue I use focuses replenishing my hand, the red is mostly spot removal or life total damage, and black is primarily spot removal. In my opinion, Killing Wave is the best "wipe" for Grixis, considering you shouldn't be running as many creatures as aggro decks anyway. The one or two you want to keep are worth paying the life for, while your opponents have to pick and choose a little more carefully. Then a turn or two later, you can just blast their remaining life total with Devil's Play or Rakdos's Return. The build I play now runs fairly consistently, resulting in wins on turn 7-8. Hope this was helpful! :)
pokeyrabbit says... #2
its slow in a fast meta game
March 10, 2013 7:24 p.m.