What is the proper timing on playing Skullcrack to prevent the Boros Reckoner infinite life combo?
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Posted on May 15, 2013, 3:46 p.m. by RokuganiPimp
As the title says.
It occurs to me that Skullcrack should be able to prevent the combo, but i want to know the EXACT timing so someone doesnt cheese me out and say i played it wrong.
Thanks in advance.
(as an aside, if you are unaware of the combo i speak, oh you soon will be. it goes simply like this:
Make a Boros Reckoner
indestructible, like with Boros Charm
, and then give him lifelink, like with Azorius Charm
. When damaged you can have the Boros Reckoner
deal equal damage to any creature you control. Make him damage himself. You gain the life from the lifelink and Boros Reckoner
is indestructible and has now taken damage again. Redirect the damage again into infinity. Ugly combo i cant believe they let slip through, fortunately there are counters to it).
Since everything is triggered, it doesn't really matter when you play Skullcrack because each trigger has to resolve in order to trigger the next event.
However, if your opponent has some way to damage Boros Reckoner , say by using Searing Spear , they could cast it in response to you casting Skullcrack . That would start the combo on the stack above your Skullcrack , so all those iterations would resolve normally to create the combo.
May 15, 2013 4:07 p.m.
Do it as a response to the lifelink from the Azorius Charm , the Skullcrack should resolve first.
May 15, 2013 4:08 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #5
thats what i thought, i just wanted to make sure. thanks everyone.
May 15, 2013 4:14 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #6
you can do it in response to him declaring that, boros reckoner's ability has gone onto the stack., yours will resolve first, and he will gain no life.
May 15, 2013 5:30 p.m.
Does it really work? I can't figure out how Skullcrack can stop the infinite combo.
The combo is based on:
Boros Reckoner being indestructible : An indestructible permanent cant be destroyed by damage or by effects that say destroy. It can still be put into the graveyard for other reasons. (official MTG ruling)
The infinite cycle of an indestructible Boros Reckoner that keeps dealing damage to itself.
The life gain effect is just a way of utilizing the infinite loop.
So while casting Skullcrack stops the opponent from gaining life, it does not stop the loop at all. He can still initiate the loop even without gaining life (with no other purpose than to annoy u perhaps).
May 17, 2013 3:12 p.m.
I think the point was to stop the life gain thus making the loop useless and just time consuming and if someone kept it up for a longish period of time, you could call judges to rule on slow play.
May 17, 2013 3:19 p.m.
In that case, that'll work. I was thinking about the "damage can't be prevented" part of Skullcrack that might stop the loop so I went n check MTG's official ruling.
But damn, with the Reckoner's infinite loop; Vizkopa Guildmage - Exquisite Blood life drain; and who knows what else, we are going to see people side boarding Skullcrack aren't we?
May 17, 2013 3:38 p.m.
Most people have I think. I rarely play red, but when I do, I either mainboard (just to hurt my opponent for 3) or sideboard it.
May 17, 2013 3:40 p.m.
Oh. And just a tip. Playing on MTGO helps a lot in learning about stack order and proper timing to cast ur spell. And since everytime the Reckoner is dealt damage he actually needs to choose a target, ur safest bet is to cast Skullcrack in response to the Reckoner choosing itself as the target. (post #5 said it). And u can probably choose to give ur opponent 1 life as a consolation prize before u cut the infinite life gain :P
May 17, 2013 3:59 p.m.
Another way to do this is to cast a kill spell in response to the Boros Charm , killing it before the Charm can resolve.
May 17, 2013 5:08 p.m.
acbooster But wouldn't you want them to waste the Azorius Charm in their hand also?
May 17, 2013 5:14 p.m.
This is if you don't have Skullcrack in your hand, or if you don't have any red mana untapped.
May 17, 2013 5:16 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #16
"since everytime the Reckoner is dealt damage he actually needs to choose a target, ur safest bet is to cast Skullcrack in response to the Reckoner choosing itself as the target."
this i think is the best answer, thanks everyone for the input.
May 19, 2013 5:52 p.m.
or you could play mill like me and not care about life ;) i've had this happen once and the kid was like "arent you gonna scoop? I have infinite life you cant win" I finally got lands I needed and milled him out and he was embarrassed....
May 19, 2013 7:44 p.m.
A couple of interesting note about the Boros Reckoner infinite life gain combo:
1). I've never met anyone playing it on MTGO, most likely because it's not that infinite there. U have to manually select a target everytime the Reckoner's ability triggers, while I can automatically yield to that ability. Which means on a 30 min time limit, he'll waste his time just manually clicking and lose for running out of time.
2). The combo means nothing in front of Vizkopa Guildmage -Exquisite Blood combo. Even if ur opponent is at 3 trillion lives, it will be be drained instantly. Plus, a mill deck works as well against it. It's more ridiculous that Master of Cruelties by himself is enough to negate all that 3 trillion lives.
May 20, 2013 8:26 a.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #19
@ ponx - all true.
but in agrro gruul and naya decks your options to stop the combo are limited and Skullcrack seems your best bet unless you splashed black for the Master of Cruelties
and i havent seen the combo too much. but since someone took a pro tour event with it i just want to be prepared for copycats. besides Skullcrack has uses outside of that for any control/midrange deck that relies on substantial life gain. or even against a deck using Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and Thragtusk if its annoying you or slowing you down too much.
DukeNicky says... #2
Well there isn't really a way to "cheese it out" since the Reckoner can't proceed to start that loop until the stack is empty so if you cast it in response to his attack or in response to them casting one of your charms it doesn't matter. Once a spell or ability is on the stack they all must resolve before play continues. So Reckoner is blocked by say Terror of Kruin Pass Flip thhey cast Boros Charm / Azorius Charm to begin this combo, you than cast Skullcrack at any point and it will resolve pretty much rendering that combo moot.
May 15, 2013 3:58 p.m.