Where do we Warriors stand?
Standard forum
Posted on June 3, 2015, 7:12 a.m. by Ragon_Wolfbane
I'm asking this question merely out of a sense of curiosity on how other players who play, built, or are building a warrior deck are evolving with the changing meta or try to break into it with their own flare? What is the goal of the deck? What do you believe is a bomb or a bust?
Currently I think the thing I honestly love about Warrior decks at the moment is how so many people come to so many different ways of building them. I mean sure that is the same for other decks, duh, but I mean more that all warrior decks are built in a certain way but do them differently. It is mainly because no warrior deck has made it, as far as I know, to a top 8 in any tournaments that there is so little set in stone for the deck.
The only limitations to Warrior decks are that you normally run them as aggro decks, seeing that is the most effective style for them with the best warriors being 2/1 drops, and most creatures must be warriors or provide effects that give those warriors a bonus or buff.
I just like to see where people who make these decks stand on the matter. I for one am going to share just my thoughts on a few cards I see in warrior decks that I either think are a bomb or a bust and how I think of warrior decks in general. Please share what any of you Chiefs think of Warriors down below. I hope to get a few responses!
First I'd like to say how I view warriors work best: I believe them as a company, working like slivers to provide small boosts that stack upon themselves rather easily. That's why I don't like ideas of using larger boosts or major power houses because they either are too slow or just don't seem to run to well with the deck. Those are my thoughts on the matter.
Bomb: Blood-Chin Fanatic is one of my favorite cards for my current warrior deck that I run. He comes in early enough to still be viable as a 3/3 for CMC 3, His ability, I believe, works massively well with how I see Warriors as a force that grows steadily upon itself. He takes the growth we have made in our forces and use it to deal at the last blow needed to defeat a foe! With increases from things like Chief of the Edge or Sorin, Solemn Visitor you can easily turn your Bloodsoaked Champions into 4 damage pings that can be easily reloaded with only 4 mana.
Bust: Obelisk of Urd is something I just can't really get behind. 'Maybe' I'd sideboard it in if a meta required it, but it doesn't so I don't even use it. Now the result is great, getting a major boost up on your creatures feels great as you turn your 2/1s into 4/3s and 2/2s into 4/4s. Though frankly I find having to spend a whole turn throwing this out gives your opponent a lot of time to respond. After all the quickest you can get this out is by turn 3 and that is by forcing yourself to play out only 1 drops for your first two turns. It gives mid-range and control decks a lot of time to establish themselves. Plus there are still decks that can easily remove the Urd from play. Thus leaving your efforts in vain. At least you would get something off of a Sorin, Solemn Visitor or Arashin Foremost before they get rid of it then. Plus the Urd is useless against control who can easily keep your boardstate down.
Bomb: Glaring Aegis is an enchantment that I recommend for any warrior deck! I've suggested it on other warrior decks before as a playset because of the fact that I believe it is so good. Remember that warriors are aggro and red decks loved to play Hammerhand. This guy enchantment here is just a much better version of the Hammerhand! It taps down a creature which is great for being very aggressive in the early game, grants protection against sweepers such as Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods, and there is nothing that can kill most of your creatures in combat before turn 4 or 5, depending on if you put it on a 2/1 or 2/2. It creates just this strong position for yourself. The only downside with it is that you run the risk of getting "2 for 1"ed with it. Though as long as it hits on the creature you still get value from it for taking out a blocker. It just screams value.
Bust: Chief of the Scale is an easy buster for Warrior decks in my eyes. Warrior decks are about aggression normally and toughness doesn't matter as much seeing we'll be throwing our troops into a brutal charge to the death. Glaring Aegis provides toughness we'd need and removes a blocker we'd likely get rid of instead. Blood-Chin Rager gives us evasion so we don't even have to worry about an increase in toughness. Plus you need 2 Chief of the Scales out to help your troops survive sweepers. Over all a total waste in my eyes.
Bomb: Battle Brawler is what I'd like to call a 'Warrior God' among men. If you give him the right tools then he dominates the battlefield without question. Surely a 2/2 for 2 isn't that bad and if you even get a white permanent he becomes a 3/2 which is still not that bad. Then you start doing insane things such as playing out a Chief of the Edge and turning him into a 4/2 monster that eats Courser of Kruphixs for breakfast. Get out a Glaring Aegis onto him and he becomes a 4/5 that you only had to spend 3 mana on in total. A Chief of the Edge and Glaring Aegis turn him into a 5/5 monster that can swing on turn 3 easily. Getting a Sorin, Solemn Visitor out can make him a 4/2, 5/2, or 6/5 with Lifelink and First-Strike! I have a kill count of how many Siege Rhinos he has eatten as well: 57 counting at the time of this post.
Bust: Brutal Hordechief is my last Bust for the time and I know I'm going to get a lot of mixed responses on him. I don't like him and I'll explain why. He has 'little' impact on the board by the time you play him on turn 4. You've had creatures that either been increasing your damage output or making your forces hard to deal with. He comes in and does do something nice... but for the value of the warriors... Not much. He gets out a bit more damage, but I'd honestly prefer a Sorin, Solemn Visitor if I wanted damage output. He's cool, but honestly... unless you side him in against aggro... he doesn't provide much to decks that he is in and easily is beaten by Blood-Chin Fanatic
Again let me know what you all think! I hope to see your bombs and busts and why they are that way! What warriors mean to you? And post your decks so I can seem them.
Remember Chiefs...
Either We fight together...
Or meet our Utter End...
spyroswiz29 says... #3
I believe that a B/W Warrior aggro deck would be viable after the rotation. Right now, mono red is the king of aggro and abzan aggro is the best aggro deck after it. I think what warriors dont have is damage to the face like Lightning Strike and Stoke the Flames.A guy in my LGS store was playing B/W Warriors and he had that problem:he couldnt deal the last damage to win when he was on topdeck mode.Anyway, after rotation would be a fine deck, since most of the cards are remaining in standard.
June 3, 2015 7:51 a.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #4
TCGWolf thank you. It means a lot to me to hear that he would have been proud of my service to him in a past timeline!
You do have a point though when it comes to the Brutal Hordechief. For me how I deal with Rhinos and lions and Dragons at the moment is a mixture of Blood-Chin Rager, Glaring Aegis, and my sideboard against Abza which isSelf-Inflicted Wound. Perhaps I'm being a stubborn chief, but I've never been in a situation where the Brutal Hordechief out did the Blood-Chin Fanatic in pushing past those walls. I'll give him another try, but my thoughts remain the same. On a quick note I'd actually like to hear your thoughts on Glaring Aegis, because as I stated above I highly recommend it. It has never been in any other deck for warriors that I've seen so far. I'm sure there are decks that have it, but I'd like to know what you think on it. Bomb or bust?
June 3, 2015 7:57 a.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #5
spyroswiz29 I agree with that aspect. Red is the King of Aggro due to major bombs like Goblin Rabblemaster and direct means of doing damage as you said. I have still found though that warriors can make good use of direct damage through Blood-Chin Fanatic. I know that sounds much less reliable, but what I love about B/W Warriors is that it's a perfect mash between Parasitic and aggressive. Blood-Chin Fanatic, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, and though I don't like him as much... Brutal Hordechief prove great ways to keep your life total high enough to handle other Aggressive decks. Plus, unlike red, warriors have persistence in the form of things like Bloodsoaked Champion or Return to the Ranks. The downside to these things though is that everything B/W Warriors has... Abzan has as well and more. So Abzan Aggro is strong and will carry on to be rather strong. I'll just be glad when annoying things such as Courser of Kruphix, Thoughtsieze, and Sylvan Caryatid leave standard. A hexproof manadork is just not cool guys! :c
June 3, 2015 8:07 a.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane: I'm not fully sure on Glaring Aegis. To me, it feels like you'd much rather be dropping bodies on the board to swing with, rather then trying to buff up a single warrior. An aggro deck like this has always wanting to be strength in numbers, rather then in sheer force. While yes, Putting the aegis on something immediately brings it over Bile Blight, Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods range, it still wont protect it against things like Murderous Cut, Hero's Downfall, and other such things. And even so, when you are placing the aegis, the opponent can respond with Lightning Strike, Wild Slash, or another killspell, to make sure you wasted your time and mana.
I wont say it's a complete bust, since it definiatly has it's uses, but in most cases, you'd be better off using your mana to drop dudes on the board. Even if one of them turns strong, With Drown in Sorrow or Anger of the Gods, the remainder of your army will die. I feel like i much rather run Ajani's Presence or Gods Willing over the Aegis. It's instant speed, protects the dude they wanna kill, and Gods willing will scry us our next draw.
June 3, 2015 8:15 a.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #7
TCGWolf ah I see. You do point out a lot of important points to the weakness to the Glaring Aegis. I've been having such great success with it so far though that I really feel it does pull its own weight on the matter. Again it may just me being blind with success so far. As for Ajani's Presence or Gods Willing I do see the value in those, but I want something that remains and boosts a creature to stand out strong. Besides the warriors I put them on are normally Battle Brawler, Blood-Chin Rager, and Arashin Foremost. Two of those three are prime targets for removal regardless. Glaring Aegis goes down really cheap and often when I need to make room for a swing by turn 3 if I haven't pulled into any of my three-drops. I tried Ajani's Presence mainboard for my Warrior deck, but it didn't save me from Bile Blight that is fairly common with Abzan being so common and powerful. Gods Willing doesn't help against things like Drown in Sorrow and only provides a brief defense when I'm already going to be using something like Valorous Stance due to its versatility of also removing walls.
Again though, I might be defending a sinking ship only because I was driving her successfully despite it sinking. I just personally enjoy the ability to make a warrior a god in combat. Besides wouldn't that additional body just get blown away by sweepers or removal regardless then? I'll go ahead and attempt a retest of the two later with friends to see how it goes. If it works better then the Aegis then I'll let you know.
Also as a funny story I had a all 4 Glaring Aegis on a Battle Brawler in one game that I didn't shuffle well for. I still won, but dang it was funny to have a 7/14 First-Striker against a red deck. They couldn't burn it to save their life.
June 3, 2015 8:46 a.m.
If you look on mtg top 8 there are 3 warrior lists that made top 8 in the last 2 months. Just look under ''orzhov aggro''.
What warriors are missing is reach. Red does it with burn spells, tokens goes wide, green goes big, blue evades, but it seems like warriors is not dedicated enough to either going big, wide or flying (its specialty is more in ''battle tricks'' but it ain't game closing enough).
Once this issue gets ruled out I can see warriors become a very good deck!
June 3, 2015 11:20 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #9
I used to run an Abzan Warriors deck utilizing Collected Company. Out of 10 rounds, I was able to go 8-2 with it. The only 2 losses were against 2 Esper Dragons decks of similar builds. I loved the deck except I just couldn't beat Esper Dragons. I could handle that deck very easily game 1 but 2 and 3 were awful. Even with discard spells. It also had some awkward draws where I needed 2 white mana sources turn 3 and sometimes you didn't get it.
Here's my suggestions for bombs in an ABZAN Warrior deck (because Abzan BRO!):
BOMB: Arashin Foremost = This card has been great every single time I have played it! It has so much synergy within the deck. It gives you that extra push of damage to finish them off quick.
BOMB: Blood-Chin Rager = HUGE BOMB! With at least 2 creatures on board, he makes it as if it doesn't matter that your opponent is matching your creature drops, drop for drop. He says I don't care and I'll just go around your defenses and piss on your face.
BOMB: Den Protector = HELLO?!?! He's a warrior and one of the best cards in standard right now! He buys back your creatures or utilities, and in my case, he bought back my Collected Company often. He dominates in any green deck, and especially this deck.
BOMB: Warden of the First Tree = DUDE...he becomes a warrior and has 3 power and toughness when you do so, making him one of the bigger warrior creatures in the format. He also can provide a late game which aggro decks struggle with. He let's you sink your mana into him for benefit.
Merciless Executioner = Coming out of sideboard even can be HUGE! I can personally say he's probably main deck worthy. So good to fend off decks that try to go big and/or utilize 1 or 2 creatures on board.
Now for some of my busts from my experience:
BUST: Blood-Chin Fanatic = I wasn't too impressed with this card after playing with him, I thought he would be good, but he's just mediocre. I would rather just play Arashin Foremost on 3 than this card. Yeah if you have a lot of mana to play him and use his ability it could end games, but think about it, you will not be in a board stall late game with this deck because other decks will just overpower you or control the crap out of your board therefore leaving you with not too many creatures to sac. Also, he doesn't do anything the turn he drops! BORING! He should be played on turn 5, but I should be killing you turn 5 or using Den Protector.
BUST: Mardu Woe-Reaper = VERY VERY Very situational card. Yeah a 1 drop 2/1 is great, but his ability on Turn 1 isn't that great. He effectively does nothing for us turn 1. He may be relevant late game, but we want to punch damage through as fast as possible. I would rather play Bloodsoaked Champion AND Mardu Shadowspear over him.
BUST: Brutal Hordechief = He just costs too much for the deck, plain and simple. If he had 4 toughness, he would probably be worth it as he can block decently the turn he comes down. But a 3/3 for 4 isn't anything to boast about. His ability is nice, but ONLY if you have a board built up. Otherwise, he's just a dead card.
June 3, 2015 11:32 a.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #10
It sounds like you're talking about strictly Orzhov warriors, but Boros Warriors is where I think I'll be playing come rotation. With Alesha, Who Smiles at Death and Arashin Foremost being the primary focus, and the W/R colors offering both burn and protection to make sure ours survives when theirs don't. I have a build in the works largely based on what I play now. Though I think I may still include a monk Monastery Swiftspear.
June 3, 2015 2:11 p.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #11
EssTea, I agree with you on the idea that Warriors feel a little bit of everywhere, but never focus on a pinpoint spot. The versatility works well with things like Blood-Chin Rager for evasion and Herald of Dromoka for Vigilance. Token wise you could use Secure the Wastes, but most of the time it doesn't prove useful to a warrior deck unless you're looking to use it to end a game or resupply the board after a wipe. I mean Dragon Hunter works well enough on his own to dissuade a strong creature type, but still has issues even doing its job against things like Stormbreath Dragon and Silumgar, the Drifting Death who are both really played. The issue with warriors as well is because of their general reliance on one another to get the most effect... you end up have situations where your stuff can easily fall apart if you face something like control or red aggro. In all honesty I hope for the Magic: Origins to give us something that comes out as a huge bomb in the near future as a warrior. Like a single warrior with protection from red would be amazing! Though I know they won't do it. Sigh The good news though about Warrior decks is that they'll easily survive rotation at least! I just hope that they work to add to warrior tribal with small additions here and there over time.
UpperDeckerTaco, Abzan? Bleh! Mardu for life! Mawahaha! Though in all seriousness I have still considered bending in to the overwhelming might of the Abzan in favor of their terribly powerful warrior pool. They have some of the most disgusting and powerful warriors in standard right now with Den Protector and Warden of the First Tree. Even Heir of the Wilds is a strong creature that has a very strong keyword attached to it. I guess the reason I didn't get into it mainly was that I felt having to slow down for a more manageable mana base. Plus it can be expensive money wise. Though that is just a natural reality of Magic. Regardless I still really love B/W Warriors over Abzan due to a more reliable mana base, but if Abzan gets any additional bombs towards the Warrior arsenal then I may end up converting just for my own survival. Oh and I do actually prefer Mardu Woe-Reaper in a deck because of the exile effect on him. He's great against reanimator decks out and useful when taking out graveyards created by Satyr Wayfinder. The worse case is that you end up using his effect to exile your own creatures for the extra little bit of life. I think he's great against aggro and control as I won against a few Esper Dragon decks by forcing them to exile their dragons while they were in the graveyard.
June 3, 2015 2:35 p.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #12
Mj3913, I didn't mean to come off like that. Mainly I listed a B/W Warrior build because I'm familiar with that and that is where my experience lies. If you'd like to tell us your ideas and stuff I'd love to hear it. As long as it is a warrior deck then it doesn't matter the colors after all. Also I considered Alesha, Who Smiles at Death when I was originally working on a mardu warrior build. Though just going into R/W sounds interesting to me. I feel you're losing a lot of value when rotation hits for Theros and M15 by losing Goblin Rabblemaster and Stoke the Flames. What makes up for the loss of evasion through Blood-Chin Rager or persistence through things like Bloodsoaked Champion in the deck though? I'm really curious now!
June 3, 2015 2:45 p.m.
Darthagnon says... #13
I like Collateral Damage, as, not wanting to concentrate too much on burn, it is a nice "afterthought" card: sacrifice Blood-Chin Rager when they use two blockers on him, to get the damage in anyway. Also, Titan's Strength is epic! Wait until they've declared blockers, then cast it on the one that got through. And scry.
I play Mardu Warriors, and it actually struck me as a kind of "budget Slivers" :D
June 4, 2015 11:57 a.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #14
Darthagnon, that is exactly how I felt with warriors when they first came out with small boosts. As it progressed it felt pretty much like playing with Slivers. Only these ones are actually fair and not a complete and total jerk to play against. Also I know what you mean with those two. Sacrificing creatures just in general with a Blood-Chin Rager out is funny because when they block they just waste so much time!
June 4, 2015 12:19 p.m.
Darthagnon says... #15
Awesome Warrior cards: Mardu Shadowspear (especially in games with more than two players) and the Mardu cockroach: Bloodsoaked Champion
June 4, 2015 1:39 p.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #16
Darthagnon, oh I agree and I side them in when I play multiplayer. Though in FNM and 1v1 games I like the 2/1 creatures for the fact the boosts help them when I get a Arashin Foremost onto the field. Because a 2/1 can get out 4 damage with Double stike, then 6 with a single boost. Though only a 1/1 can sadly get 2 out. Even with the ping of damage it still is 1 point of damage less they could do. Makes me a little sad.
June 4, 2015 2 p.m.
Darthagnon says... #17
Good points you make there, actually... maybe I should consider adding in Battle Brawler instead of some of my Mardu Shadowspears, siding them for multiplayer... Currently, I play loads of 1-drops (Mardu Dragonborn, if you're interested)
June 4, 2015 2:36 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #18
I'm using wb warriors N I hold steady a 4 in the row top 4 table record
June 4, 2015 5:24 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #19
So I'd say warriors is at least number 5 on this standards best decks
June 4, 2015 5:25 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #20
Well as I said before my build includes 1 monk, being Monastery Swiftspear because I cannot find a viable replacement in the warrior type. I'll lay out the cast and crew so you have a better idea seeing as no deck links in this forum.
Monastery Swiftspear - the only non warrior but our first turner coming swinging right out the gate.
Zurgo Bellstriker - another 1 drop, but we want to dash him if possible.
Mardu Woe-Reaper - For those nasty recurring Raptors and whip decks.
Seeker of the Way - Prowess, into Lifelink, into doublestrike... you get the picture.
Dragon Hunter - for the 'Dragons of Tarkir'. Pun intended.
Arashin Foremost - Lending doublestrike to our fellow warriors.
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death - Every creature is a viable target for recurrence.
Our arsenal includes Artful Maneuver for double the effect and double the prowess triggers. Temur Battle Rage keeping the doublestrike alive. Valorous Stance mostly to keep Alesha alive and well or get rid of something big. Finally Wild Slash to get rid of early things blocking the road, or to push that last little bit of damage you need through.
Won't get into side too much only that we have the necessary tools for artifact/enchant hate, burn control, anti aggro, and additional protection if needed.
June 4, 2015 6:14 p.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #21
Mj3913, I do see the amazing Arsenal that you get to work with. I'm very impressed! Oddly enough when I was doing the DTK Pre-release I made a Mardu Warrior deck because I had a lot supporting it. I found that getting Doublestrike on Qal Sisma Behemoth was amazingly funny.
Now in all seriousness though I find your list of items really awesome. Have you considered Great Teacher's Decree though for a much stronger finisher? Just curious.
Also I'm considering the benefits of going to either Mardu warriors or Abzan warriors in the long run. It may all depend on what is in store for Magic Origins. Mardu you get access to Burn and a bit more grave retrieval, but Abzan you get access to Den Protector and Collected Company these choices are just so hard :c
June 5, 2015 4:04 a.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #22
I side Great Teacher's Decree in case Artful Maneuver isn't enough. I thought of going Naya for Company/Protector but budget dictates that is not happening.
June 5, 2015 9:51 a.m.
Darthagnon says... #23
Hey, looks like we're gonna need a new Blood-Chin Rager at some point, as they now have a keyword for his Warrior lord ability: "Menace" (see spoiled Boggart Brute. Maybe something like "Whenever Blood-Chin Rager attacks, each Warrior creature you control gains menace until end of turn. (Creatures with menace can't be blocked except by two or more creatures)" and hopefully some better, more awesome flavour text for such a cool card ;)
Kralug says... #2
Zurgo Helmsmasher Would be proud.
Anyways, i do feel like Brutal Hordechief Has it's uses, as i currently run 2 in my setup. It's not the whole " Ping one damage " that makes him a threat, its that you can forcefully make your opponents block your 1/1, and swing in with the team to win at turn 5. It's a mixed opinion i guess, but in the meta around where i play, he's proven to do quite well. Sure, you may have 2 Rhino's, a hexproof Lion, But you are all blocking this 1/1. ggwp!
June 3, 2015 7:41 a.m.