Why aren't red decks running Flamespeaker?
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 26, 2014, 4:47 p.m. by kaboomeow
Just wondering... With things like enchantments and buffing being meta, why isn't Prophetic Flamespeaker getting any play?
Rasta_Viking29 says... #3
What GoldGhost012 said and he also requires continual investment to get value out of his abilities and lame body.
September 26, 2014 4:58 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #4
Someone, somewhere has to be using it for its pricetag
September 26, 2014 5:09 p.m.
A card that cant work on her own is a liability to Red Aggro.
We need value, and we need it now. This card advantage scenario where his draw will save you is bullshit, since he require resources himself to give us that draw, and we may not be able to use the card he find.
September 26, 2014 5:13 p.m.
casual. or people are betting against the market hoping against hope that people all don't play spot removal for a week or so. heh. cause that's happening.
September 26, 2014 5:14 p.m.
Should be Herald of Torment or Boon Satyr 's best friend. I don't know, maybe because people kill it before it can get scary?
September 26, 2014 5:23 p.m.
cards that depend on other cards are generally bad.
September 26, 2014 6:19 p.m.
I tried him...He didn't do anything close to what it looks like her does.
September 26, 2014 6:25 p.m.
I think it is underrated. Some Red Aggro decks are playing Mogis's Warhound now, but I argue that Prophetic Flamespeaker is better. With all the Courser of Kruphix 's seeing play, killing the war hound is not hard. Even if you cast it for its bestow, you are adding instability to the deck. Also, with all the pump spells in Red Aggro, Prophetic Flamespeaker will be very difficult to block. Casting a Titan's Strength , Dragon Mantle , or Hammerhand will make blocking a nightmare for your opponent as most creatures will die to it if it gets any boost at all.
September 26, 2014 6:56 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #11
Outside of Standard, say Modern and Legacy, it's still bad. It's trying to hard to be a 
Dark Confidant
and doesn't make the mark. It also dies to Lightning Bolt
, is conditional, has zero evasion, and has a power of one.
The only decent application I can see for it is in an EDH build that gives critters evasion of some sort.
September 26, 2014 6:58 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #12
It would be so much better at 3/1 and not broken in my opinion. Fragile but worth the investment for a chance to connect.
September 26, 2014 7:36 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #13
Agreed. I'd see it in zoo no problem with those stats Rasta_Viking29
September 26, 2014 7:48 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #14
Swinging on turn four with stats like you mentioned would make it worthwhile.
September 26, 2014 9:43 p.m.
Tradeylouish says... #15
Another reason is that most Red decks want to play a limited amount of three-drops, and Goblin Rabblemaster is much better because it is a significant threat on its own.
September 27, 2014 2:02 a.m.
Aggro is a harsh land. You survive on your own, or you die.
September 27, 2014 7:21 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #18
will1210 well, the reason Mogis's Warhound sees play over flamespeaker is that he's very good as a bestow. What are the cards that give mono-red aggressive lists trouble early to mid game, when they have the advantage? Blockers that are hard to kill with direct damage and/or give incidental lifegain like Nyx-Fleece Ram , Sylvan Caryatid , and Courser of Kruphix , and removal like Hero's Downfall and Drown in Sorrow . Warhound turn three bestowed on a Borderland Marauder or a Raid-Activated War-Name Aspirant can eat all of those creatures and even if they have "straight-up destroy"-type removal you don't get completely two-for-one'd.
Flamespeaker can't get through any of those above-mentioned blockers by himself and spending cards on him to make him big enough to be relevant sets you up to be two-for-one'd. Sure you get card advantage but the moment your opponent drops a courser flamespeaker could say you draw 7 card on each hit but it wouldn't matter until you could put an aura on him.
Sure you can put Herald of Torment , or Boon Satyr on him but if you're in those colors you would probably rather just play those two as creatures? Or Fanatic of Xenagos ? idk. Outside of those two I'm not really sure what would be /really/ good to put on Flamespeaker to make him reliably playable. Flamespeaker's best shot was with Madcap Skills still in standard, unless something really /really/ nuts shows up in Fate Reforged or Dragons of Tarkir I don't have faith that Flamespeaker will get there.
September 28, 2014 3:56 p.m.
I think I will necro this, as I really don't think the conversation has been fair to him.
One card that is progressively seeing more play is Titan's Strength , this is because it has finally been recognizedas a genuinely strong card and a neat combat trick. In addition to this, Monastery Swiftspear is now saturating most red decks, and even other decks. I feel like this is the time for me to try and explain why Prophetic Flamespeaker truly shines.
Rather than taking the burn route with Monastery Swiftspear , I've made a pseudo heroic deck, which is consitently fast and powerful. During this, one of the star players is definitely the Prophetic Flamespeaker . I have opted to run him over Goblin Rabblemaster , because the impact of a Prophetic Flamespeaker swinging is nearly always greater than that of a Goblin Rabblemaster swinging. Yes, it can die to removal, and needs a bit of investment, but the pay off is huge. This deck isn't dependant on him winning, however the wide variety of pump spells allows him, and any other creature, to reach power levels over 9000.
Another card that is quite underrated is Thunderous Might . I will always concede that getting 2-for-1ed sucks, but this is a gem when paired with Prophetic Flamespeaker . Alone, it is a 5/3 double strike trample swinging on turn 4. That is alone, without any other buffs or pumps.
To those who are wondering, these experiences are based on playing numerous red aggro builds, in particular since Born of the Gods (from this rotation), and seeing great success from various builds of this deck pre rotation, block constructed, and post rotation. My current version is Khan you keep up?.
October 6, 2014 11:24 p.m.
Sorry, amendment to the above regarding Thunderous Might and Prophetic Flamespeaker , it's a 4/3 double strike trample. Didn't proofread for typos.
October 6, 2014 11:25 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #21
If you're worried about getting 2-for-1ed, there's always Inferno Fist .3/3 Double-strike trampler with a bonus Shock attached.
October 7, 2014 4:51 a.m.
Run Spirit Bonds in a predominantly red creature aggro shell? You can always sac to prevent the 2 for 1 and running boros also gives you access to Chained to the Rocks for that little bit of interaction you're going to want if you're not including burn mainboard.
October 7, 2014 6:12 p.m.
Diluting the deck then though. Wasting valuable time and resources. Also multiples suck a little. Problematic.
The entire thing is basically like saying 'hey I've invested 3 cards into this one dude, please remove it with a single spell!'. You're playing with fire (heh pun). Potential card disadvantage is massive.
October 7, 2014 6:34 p.m.
Seraphicate says... #24
I'd think it also goes well with Aqueous Form (but then again, almost everything else does better with it)
October 9, 2014 8:26 a.m.
The problem is not the trade with enemy spells, really. If that was so, Madcap Skills wouldnt have been as dominant as it was.
The thing is, ok. You hit the guy. You look at the card... but can you cast it? Monored is a fast deck, and we dont have that many lands to spare. The combat tricks to make the damage go in further screw your available mana. The best use for him is dropping lands form the top so you wont draw them next turn, a very controlish thing... and you just exile the stuff you cant play.
If only Generator Servant gave 2 Reds....
October 9, 2014 9:02 a.m.
I think his ability of exiling the top card is very rarely relevant. Let's not discount the fact that without that, he is still a 1/3 double strike, trample. For 3. That's decent value, especially considering the pump available to red.
The exile ability is just an occasional added bonus.
October 9, 2014 10:39 a.m.
I'd rather be in white if I was looking for the effects. The Prophetic Flamespeaker is just a bad fit for red aggro decks. If there was a functional red devotion deck I could see it getting played there with nyckthos mana, to power out your exiles and the devotion aura to add power to him. But the main problem is that he will be running into the big green fattys on turns 4-5 when he can attack for the first time. There are just so many 3drops that out shine him both in red and in other colors. If I was looking for a powerful dubblestriker I'd be playing white for the Fabled Hero and and 8 protection spells in some sort of WW or W/R aggro/heroic deck. Mostly because pumps and protection spells are some much better when they target heroic creatures then the Prophetic Flamespeaker .
October 10, 2014 4:43 a.m.
A 1/3 double strike, trample for 3 isn't good value.
GoldGhost012 says... #2
Because he's slow and desperately weak to any kind of removal. An old argument, but very relevant in this case.
September 26, 2014 4:53 p.m.