Why Do We Only See The Same 30 Cards Over and Over?!?!
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 15, 2014, 4:11 p.m. by eatyourbabes
Lately I have been trying to find new standard decks that are new and interesting, but it's made me realize that in standard there are only a few decks that everyone and their mother builds. To further my point I see the same cards used over and over again. I understand that they are good and that's also why they cost so much, but as a budget standard player (oxymoron right there) I want to see more variety and not just the basic $500 spend to win.
Specifically I mean that if i see a deck's color palate, I can 9/10 times guess almost exactly what is going to be in the deck based off the color scheme. For example
Black -> Hero's Downfall Thoughtsieze Bile Blight
Red -> Stormbreath Dragon Goblin Rabblemaster Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Green -> Sylvan Caryatid Courser of Kruphix Polukranos, World Eater Genesis Hydra
White -> Elspeth, Sun's Champion Brimaz, King of Oreskos Ajani Steadfast Banishing Light
Blue -> Prognostic Sphinx Negate Dissolve
Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that I'm ready to see new and exciting things in the world of standard. It's only been three weeks since Khans of Tarkir was release and all I can find on the decklist page is Mantis Rider and Siege Rhino all over the place.
This might just go back to who I am as a player. I love competition, like a lot! Honestly, that's why I play standard and even magic for that matter. However it doesn't feel like we are competing anymore when the standard card pool is as small as the gene pool of a redneck family in the back woods of Alabama doing butt stuff with their cousin. Sure it's just the nature of the beast and your cousins are still attractive people, but standard doesn't need to be the same cest-pool of inbreed standard decks that vary from the other 5 or so by just a few cards. Change it up and experiment and just PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make magic about more than just filling cardsleeves with $$$.
lemmingllama says... #3
Sounds like you want to start working on Modern or Legacy. Both have massive card pools, and so you can try to find fun decks that can be done inexpensively. Also a well constructed Modern deck that costs less than $100 can still give a good fight against the tier 1 decks, so its much more fun to deckbuild to find those perfect synergies and such.
October 15, 2014 4:16 p.m.
Well if the cards are the best and you wanna win, you generally win with the best.
There's Jeskai Ascendancy combo if you want something different that might still win consistently.
Any deck can win even without using the same cards as other decks, but it'll be tougher because those decks are using the best cards.
Sure, you can build an Abzan Outlast deck with Mer-Ek Nightblade and co., but it's not going to beat the top decks very often because the other decks are more consistent or powerful or are faster.
I have a mono white deck right now that's not really a netdeck but it still has cards like Brimaz, King of Oreskos because it's a great card
October 15, 2014 4:17 p.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #5
The decks aren't made out of cards that cost a lot of money. The cards cost a lot of money because they are used in those decks.
People play these at tournaments where there is a cash prize, media coverage and reputable sponsors. If you want to do something different in standard, do it. There are a lot of good cards that don't cost much money at all. Don't wait for someone else to do it, build a fresh deck yourself.
Also worth noting that if you trade right, you can have a top tier deck without spending money, so up your trading game.
October 15, 2014 4:18 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Not this argument again.
Standard is a competitive format. People are going to play what works. Sure, there are plenty of people out there who homebrew "innovative" or at least different decks, but most of the victory-oriented people are going to play the dominant cards and decks in the meta.
Nobody is obligated to play something different, and complaining about what other people choose to play is petty.
October 15, 2014 4:22 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #7
Because its standard.
With a limited card pool, and small selection of playable cards, you will see cards serving in multiple decks.
October 15, 2014 4:24 p.m.
Whenever I see a post like this I'm tempted to say this but just haven't until now. Pretend that magic cards all had a stable price of 5 cents for a common, 10 cents for uncommon etc. no matter the power level. The standard meta game would STILL look the exact same because irregardless of cost some cards are more powerful than others, and in that scenario the Abzan player would be looked at the same as the player who threw together some jank deck in hopes of being "original". It just irks me when people see spending money on cards or including expensive cards in their decks as being unoriginal. I'm not accusing you of that I'm just saying in general I've run into that attitude.
October 15, 2014 4:26 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #9
Argument for OP's side, If you watch enough legacy coverage, you'll still see the same few cards over and over. Delver, Abrupt Decay , True-Name Nemesis , Lightning Bolt ... Granted, there's more of them, but this isn't a standard only complaint.
However, I still agree that people play what they want to play, and complaining about it is just childish. [Insert reasons listed above]
October 15, 2014 4:27 p.m.
omnipotato says... #10
The problem with this format is that there isn't really that much difference between types of decks. For example, in a format like last season, in a white control deck, you'd have Elspeth, Sun's Champion but a white aggro deck wouldn't. The decks right now are all midrange, and all trying to do kind of the same thing. That's why a Mardu "aggro" deck and an Abzan "control" deck have 60% the same cards. There are not a lot of decks right now what will win on turn 4 consistently while goldfishing (like G/W Aggro last season), and there are no decks that will completely shut you down if you give them enough time (like U/W Control last season); i.e., there aren't many true aggro or control strategies, everyone is playing midrange.
The closest thing to aggro is RDW, which doesn't play Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker or Stormbreath Dragon
October 15, 2014 4:37 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #11
Let's not forget how little Theros block gave us (I hate that block with a passion) in terms of competitive, or at the very least, playable cards. The playable ones are expensive, but the majority aren't worth building around, so the pool of cards that are actually good is very small. Just wait til more of the Khans block gets released. New decks always pop up once WotC's plans for standard come to fruition.
October 15, 2014 4:45 p.m.
If you want to win, you need to play the strongest cards. This is why competitive decks all look roughly the same. End of thread.
October 15, 2014 4:46 p.m.
when was the last time a combo deck made the top 8 of a standard pro tour?
October 15, 2014 5:02 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #15
I think it's a bit naive to complain because the most commonly played cards are a small percentage of the card pool. That's how competitive TCGs work. Compare the competitively used card pool to the total card pool in any [competitive] format at all [Legacy, Modern, Standard are an easy place to start] and you will likely find very similar percentages. Best cards get played, not as good cards don't. The fact that it's only 30 (or whatever the number actually is) is just because the standard card pool is only ~1,000 rather than let's say 10,000 cards.
October 15, 2014 5:09 p.m.
OP_Magikarp says... #16
Idk I think there are a lot of combos that people haven't tried. Why spend a lot of money on stuff people already have built when you can spend even more on something that no one ever really sees? Take $$$ FIVE COLOR BUDGET $$$ for example. Pure genius.
October 15, 2014 5:35 p.m.
I mean, some cards are hard to get away from within standard. Trust me, i'd much rather play Terminate or Dreadbore or Go for the Throat in the stead of Hero's Downfall but i also LIKE playing standard because the card choices are more limited, rather than getting 4 versions of the same card ( kind of exagerating) played on me in another format. Also i really like my playset of Goblin Rabblemaster and i got them before they cost 10 each, and through trading, i'mNot going to not play them because 1. I love the card and 2. There is no room for hipster irony in competetive magic :p
October 15, 2014 6:05 p.m.
you must not have played in the days of innistrad block, where deck brewing was at an all time high.
Yes, we all love variety, but i will gladly take the smaller card usage to improve my chances at winning.
some people prefer the method over the result, which is fine and dandy, but in my opinion that isn't one of competitive nature.
October 15, 2014 6:31 p.m.
eatyourbabes says... #20
Good people of tapped out! I see that you're right in the fact that yes it's standard and what's good is good and should be played! From a personal standpoint though, it just sucks to be me and go to FNM with my $50 deck (iBROas, God of Winning) and get stomped because some fat 12 year old with mommy's credit card and plays a meta deck half as well as the average player could. That's just frustrating personally, hopefully if you looked at the deck you can see that I am trying to find creative and innovative decks, but, like you all pointed out what's good is good. Nevertheless I am wrong in this debate. I do see that the good cards do prevail. My problem is that I just can't afford them with makes me sad.
On the modern and legacy note! That sounds cool.... but I don't know the first thing about modern or legacy so that's terrifying for me personally. One other thing I thought of while reading all of your excellent constructive criticism, which I thank you for, is that I should consider playing standard pauper. Any comments of any of those topics would be greatly appreciated!
October 15, 2014 7:35 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #21
I really hate seeing these posts. Here is the thing: Some cards are good, some cards are less good, and some cards are bad. Which ones do you want to play if you want to win? If you want variety, change what you play. You cant expect others to change what they play. Why should they give up on good cards to make you feel better? Im not saying I don't find it frustrating sometimes. Im just saying that If you want people to stop playing those decks, you need to start playing something better. People will always play good cards. If people are playing blue, of course they play counters! that is the whole reason to play blue! Likewise black is the color that plays hard removal, and you play black specifically for removal. With standard, there is a limited card pool (like you mention, albeit in a somewhat discriminatory manner), So when playing black for removal, you only have a few viable options. All I ask is that you keep this in mind before posting something like this again
October 15, 2014 7:41 p.m.
slovakattack says... #22
Probably because a large portion of the magic community derives enjoyment from victory in competitive play.
October 15, 2014 8:22 p.m.
LordOfDispair says... #23
I had this exact same thought, which is what inspired me to shove them all in a ridiculously expensive deck and mock the standard format as a whole :D
5 color has entered the building (help needed!) Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 1 | 3 COMMENTS | 108 VIEWSI am legitimately planning on bringing this list to gameday just for the lulz.
It is kinda dumb though, it's like you can follow a formula and come out with the perfect deck in the current standard. No funzies, no creative designing, just a deep wallet.
October 15, 2014 10:16 p.m.
Great response eatyourbabes :)
LordOfDispair, it's not like the first person(s) to come up with said "formula" weren't creative when they put it together, playtested, and tweaked it. Deckbuilding always requires thought, creativity, and insight into the format. Taking someone else's list from the Internet isn't deckbuilding, it's netdecking. Pioneers create the new paths, and those who follow simply take the path of least resistance. Someone can take it upon themselves to forge a new trail, but if it's not better in some way, there's no point (cost vs. returns).
What would you rather do: buy a jerky for a high price or invest unforeseeable amounts of resources into raising a cow, killing it, and making your own jerky that might just be worse and more expensive than the pack of the finished product? That's what the decision is for people who aren't great at deckbuilding. If you're really good at it or don't mind investing time and money into a new deck, the risk is a lot less.
October 16, 2014 12:13 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #25
What's that? Your meta is using all the same decks? Then you know exactly he deck you need to beat.
Seriously how is that hard to grasp. Okay, so you see a lot of siege rhinos, Then put the griff in your sideboard. You see lots of Mantis Rider, then play Lightning strike. I took a look at your deck eatyourbabes and it literally has blue in it for 1 creature card (4 copies) with nothing in the side that utilises it. Why? You want to aggro, your better of playing 2 more lightning strikes that help get threats out the way. Then you have a bunch of heroic with only 3 cards (12 copies total, one that requires you to tap your guys) to actually trigger it. I'm going to be honest your deck is bad. You have no protection. Okay, so you see lots of heroe's downfall and bile blight, then play Feat of Resistance which is definitely budget.
If you keep losing to the same deck, then stop blaming their deck and look at how to improve your own build. This is the advice from a Home-brewer. People will copy winning decks, as a brewer I honestly find this makes it easier to make an origional deck that wins because you know what the meta is that you need to beat.
October 16, 2014 1 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #26
I'm a Johnny player myself - I've never netdecked, and I've often used 'less good' cards. Especially at an FNM level, that's pretty okay - I'm not going to dominate the local meta, but I'm going to win some rounds (and occasionally some prizes) and I"m going to have fun. And I'm okay with that - it's what I'm playing for.
But, and I don't mean this sarcastically, if your budget brew can't beat "some fat 12 year old with mommy's credit card and plays a meta deck half as well as the average player could", then the problem isn't with your local meta.
October 16, 2014 3:37 a.m.
eatyourbabes says... #27
Ultimaodin thank you for the deck critique, but I suggest you go back and look at the deck again if you think that Battlefield Thaumaturge is only in the deck for aggro. Honestly I don't usually even attack with it regularly because I want to keep it alive for its effect. Battlefield Thaumaturge combos with Launch the Fleet and Glimpse the Sun God so that I can play either of those on literally everything on the field for only one mana. On the note of Glimpse the Sun God it's an instant which means I can cast it after my creatures have been declared as attackers and tapped, so I "tap" an already tapped attacking creature, which doesn't change that they're already attacking, and get the heroic buff from it, on top of tapping all the creatures that my opponents have.
October 16, 2014 7:05 a.m.
OP_Magikarp says... #28
Lol I just find it funny how people say they hate posts like these then go on to support it by responding with a well written intuitive paragraph. There you go. That will get these posts to stop.
But that's besides the point. At the end of the day, yeah our budget decks may not hold up to the large meta but there's a certain satisfaction in coming up with your own strategy and seeing it work against most decks rather than copy/pasting from online.
October 16, 2014 7:38 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #29
eatyourbabes - No I mean your deck looks like it is meant to be aggro and Thaumatage is not a worthwhile splash for an entire colour. Just because the interaction is cool does not mean it is worthwhile splashing an entire third colour for 1 card. Especially since half the cards without Thaumaturge are rather weak and Thaumaturge without those cards is also weak. It's an interaction that literally collapses via, "I Magma Jet your Thaumaturge" which you have zero protection for.
October 16, 2014 8:38 a.m.
eatyourbabes says... #30
Ultimaodin I see your point with that, the structure of the deck does look flimsy at best when a quick Lightning Strike can kill basically anything that I have out. The deck is designed to be aggro, my thinking when making it was that since Khans of Tarkir was meant to slow the meta game down, can I beat those decks by speeding up my own deck?
October 16, 2014 9:02 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #31
Not sure about the slow down but my deck is borderline control and I practically always have either a Lightning Strike or Magma Jet for turn 2. Then if my opponent is major aggro I have Searing Blood and Magma Spray to bring in.
October 16, 2014 9:11 a.m.
eatyourbabes says... #32
That sounds like the stuff I've seen before, any advice on how to beat that or make the deck better?
October 16, 2014 9:13 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #33
Again Feat of Resistance and other forms of protection. As for facing my deck, Nobody in my meta has managed to work that one out yet but for me it is efficient toughness creatures for low mana, something not particularly available in aggro outside the very expensive Brimaz. That said Monastery Swiftspear can be slightly irritating game 1. Also Return to the Ranks can be decent provided I don't have counterspell mana up. (that's only because I don't play Anger of the Gods since I can't cast it at instant speed)
October 16, 2014 9:27 a.m.
I don't really support netdecking, i ubderstand that we don't all have the time to brew, and even when we do most times you can search the web and find a similar build. In my earlier post though, i was defending the use of popular cards, not so much netdecking, last years Thoughtseize , Nightveil Specter Grey Merchant of Asphodel decks during theros were painfully hard to beat and annoying bland and repetetive, but i just didn't play standard and brewed some fun stuff in modern because i really disliked the theros block in general. Ultimaodin would you mind looking at my deck Welcome to the Rabbledome (suggestions please) please? Haha, i'm taking to my shops standard tonight and i'd like to have it fully tuned by game day, thanks!
October 16, 2014 10:25 a.m.
eatyourbabes says... #36
AngryBearTony I like Ajani's Presence but the strive cost is too much for me. I want to be able to trigger all of my heroics and with only 5 mana or so I can only get two targets that card. It feels awesome to target Anax and Cymede a few Phalanx Leader s and an Akroan Hoplite with Launch the Fleet for like 5 or 6 mana. or only 1 mana if I have a Battlefield Thaumaturge on the battlefield.
Servo_Token says... #2
If you want to see a new, exciting deck that beats everything else, you need to be the one to make it. Just be prepared for people to post this thread about you 2 weeks after you do it.
Not everyone else in the world that wants to play Magic has the time to experiment, tune, and make their own deck. People have jobs, families, and lives. If these people want to build a deck and compete with it, they just go "Oh, what's the best deck right now? Lets make that then."
October 15, 2014 4:16 p.m.