Why is Desecration Demon bad?
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 3, 2014, 2:15 a.m. by crystalizeq
Yes, I know that Desecration Demon is used in MBD, but I keep hearing people saying that it is only there for the devotion and is actually a bad card on its own. But why?
Here is my reasoning as to why it is a good card. If the opponent can't sacrifice any creatures, it is a 6/6 flier for 4, which is insane. If the opponent does, he gets a counter and becomes tapped. But my reasoning is that the opponent can't sac creatures forever, and when they run out of creatures, they are left with a hulking mass of a demon.
But even if the enemy is sacrificing forever, so what? You are essentially having them sac a creature each turn and there is no real infinite token generation in Standard, the enemy should not have that many useless creatures. There will come a point where the enemy has to sacrifice creatures that are actually useful to them and from there, it keeps penalizing them.
In Standard, there are a few main decks that are going around MBD, MUD, Esper Control, U/W control, G/R, and I am just going to add G/W since that is starting to see some play.
Against MBD, they technically have infinite tokens using Pack Rat but that requires to have 3 mana untapped and to discard a card. Even if there was no mana needed to be payed and no discard, you are still keeping the power of the rats at bay. But with the mana and the discard you are limiting what they can play, if they even want to keep their rats around.
Against MUD, the token generator is Master of Waves . But in black, there is Doom Blade and Hero's Downfall which will almost always be played in a B/X deck along with Dessi. But apart from those other spells, he is the weakest downfall. But he falls turn 4, along with Dessi, so if you are able to somehow prevent the opponent from casting him, then your opponent will have to sacrifice other creatures. And in devotion decks, every single creature is useful to them (Apart from the 2/1 elementals). But aside from Master, there is not much else that could be done against Dessi, and he hinders the opponent's ability to gain devotion
Esper and U/W control will go together since they are fairly similar decks. If these guys play down a creature, they want to keep it, there is no way that they would sac it. And they rarely ever play a creature until late-game, where by then you should have already cast Dessi. So in control decks, he is essentially a 6/6 flier for 4. (Yes, Esper comes with Hero's Downfall and U/W comes with bounce effects and counters, but that goes for most other cards being used right now)
Against G/W practically all of their creatures are useful to them. G/W can't deal with fliers that often so it will usually be an unblockable. And if your opponent is sacing creatures, they are sacing important creatures be it Loxodon Smiter or Fleecemane Lion . All of which are cards essential to Selsnya. Yes, they can sac a Voice of Resurgence but the token becomes weaker when every single turn they have to sac a creature. And maybe they run out, then they are left with a huge body to deal with. (Alright, yes he is able to be targeted by Selesnya Charm , but so is Stormbreath Dragon and others but they are still played).
Against G/R and other aggro decks, he forces them to sac a creature every single turn. It is essentially 4 mana to force your opponent to sac a creature every turn, or be hit for almost half of his or her life.
All in all very powerful card, and I don't see why it is not liked amongst players.
tl;dr: Dessi Demon is good, don't hate on him.
He's bad because it lets the opponent dictate the tempo of play. They don't have to sacrifice forever - they sacrifice until they have the card they need to deal with it, which (if they run a decent lot of removal) will be perhaps 2 turns or so. Letting the opponent dictate when you can amd cannot attack or block is extremely dangerous because you're left with a creature that you can only use when the opponent feels like it. He's bad.
January 3, 2014 2:55 a.m.
SwiftDeath says... #5
He has pro's and cons he is bad against MBD because your opponent has plenty of removal and pact rat as a consistent sac outlet, MUD has master of waves and has a tempo fast enough that it doesn't concern itself with him even without removal, G/W has voice and selesnya charm that help stall passed him, and Esper has more then enough removal options. Same with Jund and most other builds. He is good after a board clear or if your opponent is getting to much on board and you need to scale him back. I have seen him used in conjunction with Far / Away so when your opponent sacs their voice before blockers you bounce the token and they have to sac again. But without the extra card he loses a lot of his value. As stated above letting your opponent have options is usually going to hurt you more then help even with a 6/6 body, He is good if you need to get removal out of your opponents hand but so does Thoughtseize It really comes down to how he does for you. I have him in my build and he does help a lot at times but mostly It helps slow down tempo. Against everything else I don't need/want it.
January 3, 2014 3:26 a.m.
ShadowLand says... #6
No way is he bad, at worst he is a 2 for 1 unless they have removal to instantly take him out, in which case they would have taken out whatever you played anyways. So if he lives for a turn, they sac and then remove him next turn, you essentially removed 2 cards from play. More if you are playing an orzhov deck and can run Gods Willing .
I understand the argument that he lets your opponent control tempo, but you are essentially forcing them to make hard decisions every turn. Usually I cast him right after I have cast a Liliana's Reaver , so they have to choose which one they want to deal with.
against MUD I have had it at 12/12 before the guy just conceded to my board state. He was down to his last creature and it was lethal the next turn. He can wreck, and is easily sideboarded in the bad matchups. Good card.
January 3, 2014 3:33 a.m.
notamardybum says... #7
i personally love Desecration Demon but he fails horribly against an Elspeth, Sun's Champion or Assemble the Legion
January 3, 2014 3:41 a.m.
ShadowLand says... #8
In those situations, you take it out and put it enchantment hate, the same as any other matchup with any other deck. Dessy still deserves a MB slot in any deck that runs black. Be honest, what the heck else do you run in that slot? And I'm serious. If there's a better 4-drop in black, I want to know, cuz I can't find it.
January 3, 2014 4:25 a.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #9
I've had some experience with him, and I would not say he is bad. However he's no Abyssal Persecutor . The biggest issue with him is when he isn't in your starting hand. He's an unreliable blocker, so if the opponent is ahead in the boardstate and life totals, he won't be great at stopping your demise. It also turns any of their bad late game topdecks (Cloudfin Raptor anyone?) into buying another turn or allowing them to get through.
In general, cards that let your opponents choose are not as powerful as they seem. If playing against a skilled opponent, they will be able to sense how you want each choice to pan out, and usually attempt the opposite. Browbeat , Dash Hopes , Steam Augury , among many others (those were off the top of my head), are all good cards no matter what choice the opponent chooses. However they are rarely what you need them to be when you need them. I would say DD fits this category. He's certainly good, but when the chips are down, he won't be there to save you.
January 3, 2014 4:57 a.m.
Unforgivn_II - "They are rarely what you need them to be when you need them". I would say that they are therefore bad cards.
January 3, 2014 5:17 a.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #11
But look at this! In the case of Browbeat , 3 mana for either 5 damage or 3 cards? That's way better than Lava Axe and even blue envies a 1 mana for 1 card tradeoff. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I agree with you. But you have to admit, both choices are very cost-efficient in a vacuum.
January 3, 2014 5:32 a.m.
When you put it like that, yes. But, if it's not going to do what you want or need then what's the point in casting it at all.
January 3, 2014 5:59 a.m.
crystalizeq says... #13
Behgz I realized that after I had posted that Selesnya Charm has white in it, my bad.
ChiefBell I understand where you are coming from and I agree on some of your points, but as ShadowLand says, you are essentially getting a 2 for 1 if the opponent rips removal the next turn. And in most cases, the opponent won't be sacrificing a "useless" creature, and in most decks in standard, there are little useless creatures, that is, unless you are facing aggro. But even then, you are sacing a creature that could otherwise have dealt damage to you, be it a Legion Loyalist or a Rakdos Cackler . It would have been useful to get rid of them anyways, thus saving you a removal spell. And what happens if your opponent can't get removal? Then they are stuck sacrificing creatures until they do. So with each turn your opponent is having to sac a creature, which eventually will end up being useful to them.
SwiftDeath How is he bad against MBD? Yes, MBD has the "infinite" Pack Rat s, but in reality, if you are paying 4 mana to tap 3 of your opponent's swamps and make them discard a card every turn, is that bad? No, not at all, and in addition, they can't make new ones without paying 6 mana in total and discarding 2 cards. Overall, you are just limiting your opponent's plays.
Also, the fact that Esper and MBD can hit him with Hero's Downfall means nothing, they can hit every other creature with that too.
Also, I am not saying that Desecration Demon should be your win con, it should be there to help control the field and maybe put in some damage against certain decks.
January 3, 2014 1:17 p.m.
notamardybum says... #14
ShadowLand the only 4 drop worth mentioning is Whip of Erebos . Liliana's Reaver is like a not even close 2nd.
also with rakdos colors, theres not really any enchantment hate which sucks... but usually Slaughter Games , Duress , & of course Thoughtseize help prevent such matters.
January 3, 2014 3:35 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #15
@ notamardybum, haha, yeah, I use the reaver because its fun. More because its a zombie than because its fantastic. Its a flavor thing. I was just saying its the only black 4 drop creature out there besides dessy
thataddkid says... #2
I don't know where you are seeing this hate from. Desecration Demon is bad in certain matchups since he can be tapped down with a 1-cmc creature worth almost nothing. For example, I sac my Legion Loyalist to your Desecration Demon to let my Madcap Skills 'd creature swing in for five. He absolutely tears apart control though, which is why he is good. He just is not amazing against aggro.
January 3, 2014 2:27 a.m.